What did Paul mean by a "spiritual body"?

[historia]

This topic spun out of an earlier thread:

I'm finding it hard to see how [1 Cor. 15:44-45] can be interpreted as anything but that Christ was raised in a spiritual body.

Indeed, that's the term that Paul uses to describe the resurrected body. But the question we need to answer is this:

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

[historia]

To answer the overarching question in the thread, I think we need to first answer some subsidiary questions.

Here is the text again, but with the key terms rendered in Greek:

It is sown a psychikos body; it is raised a pneumatikos body.

If there is a psychikos body, there is also a pneumatikos body.

Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living psyche;" the last Adam became a life-giving pneuma.

I've color-coded the terms because, as you can see, Paul is contrasting two root words throughout these verses -- psyche ("soul") and pneuma ("spirit"). In verse 45 he uses those nouns directly, but in verse 44 he uses adjectives derived from those nouns.

So, first of all, what do psychikos and pneumatikos mean? And should we be consistent when translating and interpreting terms?

[JehovahsWitness]

I think that translational decisions should be made on a case by case basis depending on the context.

psychikos *body

"soul"-body is not going to mean much to the English reader and might not be the best of choices, but since biblical "souls" refers to flesh and blood animals or humans "physical" is a good option.

* Do we get the English physical from the Greek psychikos?

The word spirit is used in a wide varieties of ways but ...

pneumatikos body.

God and the angels are spoken of as "spirits" Since Jesus spoke of returning to the spirit realm to be with God in whose form he (Jesus) formerly existed, "spirit" body would be clear enough : ie the body type of spirit persons

[historia]

psychikos *body

pneumatikos body.

You're getting ahead of me here. Before we consider what these words might mean in this specific context, my question above was a more general one: What do the words psychikos and pneumatikos mean?

[JehovahsWitness]

psychikos *body

pneumatikos body.

You're getting ahead of me here. Before we consider what these words might mean in this specific context, my question above was a more general one: What do the words psychikos and pneumatikos mean?

Sorry, my bad:

- pneu·ma·tikosʹ : pertaining to the spirit, spiritual
- psychikos : belonging to the psuche, soul

[Eloi]

From an etymological point of view, the words may seem somewhat confusing, but when we see their direct use in the Scriptures, their context taking into account the internal logic of human language ... their meaning and sense become clearer.

For example, when it is said that Jesus was put to death in the flesh and was made alive in the spirit, it is evident that the expressions "in the flesh" and "in the spirit" are opposite to each other. Logically, if we analyze independently what it means for Jesus to die in the flesh, then we might get some idea of what it would mean that after that happened, something else took place: that he was made alive again in some diferent condition, since Paul use the word BUT ... Then, he was first "in the flesh" and later "in the spirit".

1 Pet. 3:18 (...) he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [πνεύματι].

Again: to understand the sequence: first he was in the flesh, then he died in the flesh, then he was made alive in spirit, one must correctly understand what it means when Jesus "was first in the flesh" to then be in spirit. What does it mean that Jesus died in the flesh?

1 Tim. 3:16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit [ἐν πνεύματι], appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’

Did Paul mean that Jesus was first a carnal person and then became a spiritual person? Obviously NO. Then what did he mean when he said that Jesus was killed when he was in the flesh?

[myth-one.com]

I think that translational decisions should be made on a case by case basis depending on the context.

psychikos *body

"soul"-body is not going to mean much to the English reader and might not be the best of choices, but since biblical "souls" refers to flesh and blood animals or humans "physical" is a good option.

* Do we get the English physical from the Greek psychikos?

The word spirit is used in a wide varieties of ways but ...

pneumatikos body.

God and the angels are spoken of as "spirits" Since Jesus spoke of returning to the spirit realm to be with God in whose form he (Jesus) formerly existed, "spirit" body would be clear enough : ie the body type of spirit persons

You just went off the tracks!

There are two body types according to the scriptures -- natural (also called physical) and spiritual.

There is no body type of "spirit person"!

Definition of person: NOUN, a human being regarded as an individual.

So "persons" are natural bodied beings!

A natural being is a being with a natural body.

A spirit is a being with a spiritual body.

Every living being is either a natural or spiritual bodied being.

A "spirit person" is never mentioned as a type of body in the scriptures!

Jesus Christ was a natural bodied human.

[historia]

- pneu·ma·tikosʹ : pertaining to the spirit, spiritual
- psychikos : belonging to the psuche, soul

Okay, cool. Just wanted to confirm we're on the same page.

Before we circle back to what these two words might mean in 15:44-45, let's look at a different example -- one from earlier in the same letter, in fact -- where Paul contrasts the same two words, this time in regard to people rather than bodies:

The psychikos person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The pneumatikos person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you would agree that the distinction here is not about what material or substance the two people are made of. Paul is not imagining that some of the current, living Corinthians have turned into spirits, while others remain in a physical form. Those who are -- or at least consider themselves to be (1 Cor. 14:37) -- pneumatikos had physical, flesh-and-blood bodies, right?

Do we get the English physical from the Greek psychikos?

No, 'physical' is derived from the Latin physica, which is, in turn, derived from the Greek physikos, a different word.

The Latin equivalent of psyche is anima, from which we get the English word 'animate'. Jerome rendered Paul's expression soma psychikon as corpus animale in the Vulgate.

[historia]

Paul use the word BUT ... Then, he was first "in the flesh" and later "in the spirit".

1 Pet. 3:18 (...) he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [πνεύματι].

While this verse in 1 Peter is interesting, it wasn't written by Paul, and so doesn't directly answer the question of what Paul meant by a "spiritual body," which is the question under consideration. Perhaps we can come back to it later after we first look at what Paul himself has to say on this topic.

[Difflugia]

I might also suggest that anyone interested read the discussion about this topic that historia and I had previously.