What did Paul mean by a "spiritual body"?

[historia]

This topic spun out of an earlier thread:

I'm finding it hard to see how [1 Cor. 15:44-45] can be interpreted as anything but that Christ was raised in a spiritual body.

Indeed, that's the term that Paul uses to describe the resurrected body. But the question we need to answer is this:

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

[Eloi]

Paul use the word BUT ... Then, he was first "in the flesh" and later "in the spirit".

1 Pet. 3:18 (...) he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [πνεύματι].

While this verse in 1 Peter is interesting, it wasn't written by Paul, and so doesn't directly answer the question of what Paul meant by a "spiritual body," which is the question under consideration. Perhaps we can come back to it later after we first look at what Paul himself has to say on this topic.

Yes, thanks for pointing that. It was a typo ... I meant Peter.

Even if Peter is the writer of those words, since they are inspired by the same spirit that inspired Paul and the whole Scriptures are, those words add pertinent info to what Paul meant.

JW already mentioned about 1 Cor. 15:45. In describing the difference between the risen Christ and Adam, Paul is differentiating between what is meant by "living soul" [Heb. נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה; LXX: ψυχὴν ζῶσαν] (Adam, in Gen. 2:7) and what is meant by "life-giving spirit" [πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν] (risen Christ).

Jesus was not a "life-giving spirit" when he was a human being with a body of flesh, as Adam had been. He only was a spirit when he was resurrected. What did Jesus stop having when he was resurrected? He stopped having the body of flesh that limited him in power; that's why Phil. 2:7 says that he had taken the form of a slave, because bodies of flesh depend on many factors for survival and have natural physical needs.

Adam could have lived forever if he had been allowed to keep his needs met, but only a spirit like resurrected Jesus could receive immortality (1 Cor. 15:53,54).

[historia]

Even if Peter is the writer of those words, since they are inspired by the same spirit that inspired Paul and the whole Scriptures are, those words add pertinent info to what Paul meant.

Sure, and those who support the orthodox position in this debate will also want to rush off to discuss Luke 24:39 and John 2:19-21, among other passages. At which point we'd be having having a superficial (proof-texting) discussion involving a half-dozen passages, instead of an in-depth discussion regarding what Paul meant, which is what this thread is about.

[historia]

Okay, turning back to the passage itself:

"soul"-body is not going to mean much to the English reader and might not be the best of choices, but since biblical "souls" refers to flesh and blood animals or humans "physical" is a good option

This feels like a rather round-about explanation, to be honest.

Psychikos never carries the meaning of "physical" in the rest of the New Testament, or, indeed, anywhere else in Greek literature, as far as I know. In fact, as I mentioned in my earlier conversation with Difflugia (linked above), outside the New Testament psychikos is sometimes used in contrast to that which is physical.

So psychikos is a very odd word for Paul to use if what he wants to say is that our present bodies are "physical" while the resurrected body is not. There are several other Greek words that he could have used here if that was his point. I think "physical," then, is simply a poor translation.

Moreover, as we saw in the definition and example above, psychikos and pneumatikos are not referring to what something is made out of, and so to even use expressions like "soul-body" or "spirit-body" is rather misleading.

The word spirit is used in a wide varieties of ways

Indeed, so is the word 'soul'. In fact, both words have a not dissimilar range of meaning, with psyche at it's core meaning 'breath' and pneuma at it's core meaning 'wind'. Both also carry the idea of that which gives life to (or animates) the body (which is even more evident in the Latin anima, as noted above).

And that I think is what Paul has in mind in 1 Cor. 15:44-45 when contrasting the two bodies, in no small part because of his quotation here of Genesis 2:7, where God breathes the breath of life into Adam. And so Paul can refer to the body that is animated by the psyche -- the natural breath of life that animates all living creatures -- as a soma psychikon, a 'soulish' body. While that same body in the resurrection will be animated by pneuma -- that is, by the Spirit (of God) -- and so can be called a soma pneumatikon, a 'spiritual' body.

Paul makes a similar point in Romans 8:

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

. . .

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. . . . For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies

Just as God raised Jesus from the dead through his Spirit, so too will he give life (future tense) to our mortal bodies through his Spirit. But notice it is explicitly our mortal bodies that will be given new life in the resurrection. In the age to come, Paul is looking forward to the "redemption of our bodies," not that his body would be discarded and he would be re-created as a spirit.

All of this, I think, makes better sense of the phrase "spiritual body."

As we saw from the definitions above and from Paul's usage elsewhere in 1 Cor., "spiritual" does not refer to what something (like a person) is made out of, and so a "spiritual body" is not a body made out of spirit, as the expression "spirit-body" would imply. Just like the English word 'steamship' does not refer to a ship made out of steam nor is a 'wind turbine' a turbine made out of wind. Rather, the latter is a turbine driven by wind, just as the pneumatikos body will be driven by pneuma ('wind'), although in this context meaning a body animated by the Spirit of God.

This also makes good sense of the two questions Paul is answering from v. 35, which was not just "With what kind of body do they come?" but also "How are the dead raised?" Paul believes they are raised by the Spirit of God, and so for that reason will have 'spiritual' bodies; that is, bodies animated by the Spirit of God. And just as the "spiritual" gifts he describes earlier in 1 Cor. are supernatural abilities given to the believer now (which he or she exercises through their physical bodies), so too will the Spirit give supernatural abilities to the (also physical) body in the resurrection, making it "imperishable," "glorious," and "powerful."

Paul can even (following scripture) talk about Adam having become a "living psyche," since it is psyche that gave him life. Likewise, he can refer to Christ having become a "life-giving pneuma," since it is the Pneuma of God that gives him life -- and it is through Christ that the believer will also be given life in the resurrection. That doesn't, of course, mean that Adam or Christ are only psyche or only pneuma. Adam had a physical body, of course, and I think Paul sees Christ having a physical (albeit glorified) body as well.

[onewithhim]

This topic spun out of an earlier thread:

I'm finding it hard to see how [1 Cor. 15:44-45] can be interpreted as anything but that Christ was raised in a spiritual body.

Indeed, that's the term that Paul uses to describe the resurrected body. But the question we need to answer is this:

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

He meant a body that is spirit, just like Jehovah is. Jesus said: "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24) Jesus is also now a spirit. Of him it is said: "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see." (ITimothy 6:16, KJV)

[myth-one.com]

This topic spun out of an earlier thread:

I'm finding it hard to see how [1 Cor. 15:44-45] can be interpreted as anything but that Christ was raised in a spiritual body.

Indeed, that's the term that Paul uses to describe the resurrected body. But the question we need to answer is this:

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

He meant a body that is spirit, just like Jehovah is. Jesus said: "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24) Jesus is also now a spirit. Of him it is said: "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see." (ITimothy 6:16, KJV)

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What is this "gift" which Jesus freely offers to those who believe in Him as their Savior?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It is His inheritance received under the Old Testament Covenant. Under that Covenant, the wages of sin is the second death, but He never sinned, and thus became the only human to ever deserve everlasting life under that Covenant. Everlasting spiritual life awaited Him if the Old Testament Covenant was ever probated.

But under the New Testament Covenant, Jesus gives His inheritance of everlasting life to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

If the man Jesus is now a Spirit as you claim, then He accepted His reward for remaining sinless, and cannot also give it away to any other human.

Consequently, we would have no Savior.

It's simple logic.

[historia]

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

He meant a body that is spirit

If soma pneumatikon means a body made of pneuma ('spirit'), then a soma psychikos would be a body made of psyche ('soul'). But the latter is the body we possess now, and is decidedly not made out of psyche, so clearly there is something amiss in your analysis here.

As we saw from the definition provided by JehovahsWitness (post #5) and the example I gave from Paul's usage elsewhere in 1 Corinthians (post #8), "spiritual" simply does not mean "made of spirit."

[onewithhim]

What did Paul mean by a soma pneumatikon (a "spiritual body")?

He meant a body that is spirit

If soma pneumatikon means a body made of pneuma ('spirit'), then a soma psychikos would be a body made of psyche ('soul'). But the latter is the body we possess now, and is decidedly not made out of psyche, so clearly there is something amiss in your analysis here.

As we saw from the definition provided by JehovahsWitness (post #5) and the example I gave from Paul's usage elsewhere in 1 Corinthians (post #8), "spiritual" simply does not mean "made of spirit."

That is obviously what Paul meant. A reading of ICorinthians 15 can give us the right understanding of this. "There are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies....[An anointed person] is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one....We shall all be changed..." (Verses 44,51)

[myth-one.com]

If soma pneumatikon means a body made of pneuma ('spirit'), then a soma psychikos would be a body made of psyche ('soul'). But the latter is the body we possess now, and is decidedly not made out of psyche, so clearly there is something amiss in your analysis here.

No, Onewithhim is correct.

John 3:5-7
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (Pneumatos pneuma estin). Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

God and the angels are spirits and have spiritual bodies. God existed from the beginning, and every other spiritual body was born of the Spirit (God). And all beings born of the Spirit are spirits.

<=======================================>

But man was made a "living soul."

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man is like every other animal in that all are natural, air breathing, physical, flesh and blood beings born of the flesh.

And beings born of the flesh are flesh.

So "souls" are natural bodied beings born of the flesh:

I Corinthians 15:44-50
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So a body "made of soul" would be a natural bodied being.

Paul and OnewithHim got it right!

[Eloi]

(...) an in-depth discussion regarding what Paul meant, which is what this thread is about.

Sure, so I did:

Paul use the word BUT ... Then, he was first "in the flesh" and later "in the spirit".

1 Pet. 3:18 (...) he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [πνεύματι].

While this verse in 1 Peter is interesting, it wasn't written by Paul, and so doesn't directly answer the question of what Paul meant by a "spiritual body," which is the question under consideration. Perhaps we can come back to it later after we first look at what Paul himself has to say on this topic.

Yes, thanks for pointing that. It was a typo ... I meant Peter.

Even if Peter is the writer of those words, since they are inspired by the same spirit that inspired Paul and the whole Scriptures are, those words add pertinent info to what Paul meant.

JW already mentioned about 1 Cor. 15:45. In describing the difference between the risen Christ and Adam, Paul is differentiating between what is meant by "living soul" [Heb. נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה; LXX: ψυχὴν ζῶσαν] (Adam, in Gen. 2:7) and what is meant by "life-giving spirit" [πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν] (risen Christ).

Jesus was not a "life-giving spirit" when he was a human being with a body of flesh, as Adam had been. He only was a spirit when he was resurrected. What did Jesus stop having when he was resurrected? He stopped having the body of flesh that limited him in power; that's why Phil. 2:7 says that he had taken the form of a slave, because bodies of flesh depend on many factors for survival and have natural physical needs.

Adam could have lived forever if he had been allowed to keep his needs met, but only a spirit like resurrected Jesus could receive immortality (1 Cor. 15:53,54).

[historia]

So "souls" are natural bodied beings

Yeah, I think that is Paul's understanding too.

I Corinthians 15:44-50
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

Yes, this is a much better translation! Psychikos doesn't mean "physical," as others have asserted, but something like "natural."

So a body "made of soul" would be a natural bodied being.

But your body isn't made of soul, it's made of flesh and bones and blood.

Clearly, then, psychikos can't mean "made of soul" -- that's nonsensical -- but rather something like "animated by the soul." A body animated by the soul would be a natural body.