Are the Hebrew scriptures (OT) compatible with the Greek scriptures (NT)?

[Scholar]

Another way to ask this question is, are practicing Jews justified in rejecting the Greek scriptures as being incompatible with the Hebrew scriptures? Or are the believers in the divine origin of the Greek scriptures (Christians), justified in saying that the two testaments are a consistent, coherent message from God?

Items to consider: The Greek scriptures are interpreted as describing God as a Trinity, whereas the Hebrew scriptures make it very clear that God is One without qualification.
God's purpose in the Hebrew scriptures is mainly to have His chosen people worship Him, whereas in the Greek scriptures God's purpose is to save every individual in the world, especially for the afterlife.
No consideration of rewards or punishments in the afterlife in the Hebrew scriptures. The afterlife and the dead are inconsequential in the Hebrew scriptures.
In the Hebrew scriptures, the Jews are to obey the Laws forever. In the Greek scriptures salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ for everyone. The Law has always been impossible to fulfill and was a lesson in futility.
God can forgive anyone in the Hebrew scriptures. God can only forgive those that accept Christ as their Savior in the Greek scriptures.
In the Hebrew scriptures, the Messiah is to appear once and be triumphant. In the Greek scriptures the Messiah must appear twice, and as it turns out, these appearances are separated by thousands of years.
What do the Hebrew scriptures say about the practice of human sacrifice?
Does the description of the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53 refer to the Messiah?

[JehovahsWitness]

You have addressed the question of how God could have created the universe by himself, as stated in Isaiah 44 and 45, by saying that God didn't really mean by himself, he meant that he was the principle architect, like an architect may say that he alone built a building, but he really meant that he designed it, and there were plenty of others involved to get the finished product. I'm not satisfied with that explanation,

I don't care.

So my question is, are you comfortable with the idea of God being misleading for several centuries?

I don't usually answer loaded questions.
viewtopic.php?p=998022#p998022

Also I usually try and focus on posts rather than the posters but I'm happy to discuss on a more personal level in a more appropriate subforum.
viewforum.php?f=26

As far as God being arrogant, that does not seem to be relevant to this thread and I have no interest in discussing it.

I don't recall asking you to.

... I don't believe you have addressed at all, is God's statements in Isaiah that there are no other gods but him.

HERE : http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 16#p907916

[TRANSPONDER]

There's nothing more delicious than watching rival Christian doctrines stabbing over the barriers., each convinced that theirs is God's downloaded Truth. Despite the South Park skit, atheists are not likely to go to war with each other, not even about what we call ourselves..."though "Brights" had better stay 'way ferm me, leastaways, while ah'm a polishin' ma gatlin...

[Scholar]

You have addressed the question of how God could have created the universe by himself, as stated in Isaiah 44 and 45, by saying that God didn't really mean by himself, he meant that he was the principle architect, like an architect may say that he alone built a building, but he really meant that he designed it, and there were plenty of others involved to get the finished product. I'm not satisfied with that explanation,

I don't care.

Aw, not even a little? Admit it, you'd be a bit happier if I began to be convinced that your interpretations had merit. (Actually, I have acknowledged that the JW translation of John 1:1 is a viable alternative and reconciles other verses that contradict the Trinity.) You'd be especially happy if I considered converting to JW, wouldn't you?

So my question is, are you comfortable with the idea of God being misleading for several centuries?

I don't usually answer loaded questions.

Well, let me unload it for you. I am interested in your answer to each of the following question: You believe that Isaiah was written centuries before the gospels, correct? And you are aware that readers of Isaiah in those intervening centuries interpreted the verses we are discussing as Jehovah saying there are no other gods, correct? In fact, you yourself will probably admit that a statement such as "besides me there is no god." would ordinarily be interpreted as meaning that there are no other gods, at least within the context of Isaiah 44 and 45. In those chapters, he repeats this more than once, and points out that gods make of stone and wood are powerless. Wouldn't you agree that he is pointing this out to show that they are not worthy of worship because they don't exist except as stone and wood? Well, enough questions for now...

There's nothing more delicious than watching rival Christian doctrines stabbing over the barriers., each convinced that theirs is God's downloaded Truth.

Well, just to be clear, that's not what's happening here. In my view, there isn't such a thing as "God's downloaded Truth." But I believe that the authors of the various scriptures were generally consistent within their own writings. But all these writings are compiled and assumed to be consistent, when there are actually many authors with many points of view. This is a problem rarely considered very seriously by conservative Christians. I think, in particular, that Christians can distort the meanings of the Hebrew scriptures (OT) by applying their theology to it. The Hebrew scriptures are more coherent and consistent than the Christian Bible because the Christians are trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. For example, Christianity is a world religion, trying to "save" the whole world from hell and death in the afterlife, whereas Judaism is mainly concerned with just the Jews following the Torah, so they can be happy and prosperous in this life.

[JehovahsWitness]

...Every culture had its place where non-conforming souls went/were sent as punishments.

yes, and in the scriptures that "place" is depicted as being the symbolic grave of mankind ie a condition of complete non-existence.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

[TRANSPONDER]

...Every culture had its place where non-conforming souls went/were sent as punishments.

yes, and in the scriptures that "place" is depicted as being the symbolic grave of mankind ie a condition of complete non-existence.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #84]

...Every culture had its place where non-conforming souls went/were sent as punishments.

yes, and in the scriptures that "place" is depicted as being the symbolic grave of mankind ie a condition of complete non-existence.

According to many eye-witness accounts, the likelihood that when you die you will find yourself in an environment which is most attractive to you and there will be a divine presence exhibiting The Energy of Divine Love, Compassion and Kindness to ward you which you will somehow just "know" loves you unconditionally and this presence will be welcoming you home, is high.

For your part, you will have feelings of regret for having believed it could be any other way, simply based upon some opinions in a book you thought more of than you needed to, and you will be equally regretful that you went to so much effort to tell others how death is going to be like, as if the news you had to share was directly truth from the divine, but the feelings of regret will be short lived because it will not really matter, because you are home.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #84]

...Every culture had its place where non-conforming souls went/were sent as punishments.

yes, and in the scriptures that "place" is depicted as being the symbolic grave of mankind ie a condition of complete non-existence.

According to many eye-witness accounts...

I see no reason to believe any of them. Especually if they contradict the word of God.


Sorry,


JW

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #87]

I see no reason to believe any of them. Especually if they contradict the word of God.

As noted, for your part, you will have feelings of regret for having believed it could be any other way, simply based upon some opinions in a book you thought more of than you needed to

Sorry,

Yes you will be. As noted, the feelings of regret will be short lived because it will not really matter, because you are home.

[TRANSPONDER]

You have addressed the question of how God could have created the universe by himself, as stated in Isaiah 44 and 45, by saying that God didn't really mean by himself, he meant that he was the principle architect, like an architect may say that he alone built a building, but he really meant that he designed it, and there were plenty of others involved to get the finished product. I'm not satisfied with that explanation,

I don't care.

Aw, not even a little? Admit it, you'd be a bit happier if I began to be convinced that your interpretations had merit. (Actually, I have acknowledged that the JW translation of John 1:1 is a viable alternative and reconciles other verses that contradict the Trinity.) You'd be especially happy if I considered converting to JW, wouldn't you?

So my question is, are you comfortable with the idea of God being misleading for several centuries?

I don't usually answer loaded questions.

Well, let me unload it for you. I am interested in your answer to each of the following question: You believe that Isaiah was written centuries before the gospels, correct? And you are aware that readers of Isaiah in those intervening centuries interpreted the verses we are discussing as Jehovah saying there are no other gods, correct? In fact, you yourself will probably admit that a statement such as "besides me there is no god." would ordinarily be interpreted as meaning that there are no other gods, at least within the context of Isaiah 44 and 45. In those chapters, he repeats this more than once, and points out that gods make of stone and wood are powerless. Wouldn't you agree that he is pointing this out to show that they are not worthy of worship because they don't exist except as stone and wood? Well, enough questions for now...

There's nothing more delicious than watching rival Christian doctrines stabbing over the barriers., each convinced that theirs is God's downloaded Truth.

Well, just to be clear, that's not what's happening here. In my view, there isn't such a thing as "God's downloaded Truth." But I believe that the authors of the various scriptures were generally consistent within their own writings. But all these writings are compiled and assumed to be consistent, when there are actually many authors with many points of view. This is a problem rarely considered very seriously by conservative Christians. I think, in particular, that Christians can distort the meanings of the Hebrew scriptures (OT) by applying their theology to it. The Hebrew scriptures are more coherent and consistent than the Christian Bible because the Christians are trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. For example, Christianity is a world religion, trying to "save" the whole world from hell and death in the afterlife, whereas Judaism is mainly concerned with just the Jews following the Torah, so they can be happy and prosperous in this life.

Well, fair point. But that Jesus came to revise the OT scriptures is undeniable, wouldn't you say? Replacing the Mosaic Laws with the beatitudes? Dismissing the Sabbath and Temple as less important than Jesus was? Don't you think you are falling into error in relying on the Jewish beliefs, traditions and readings rather than those teachings of the chosen apostles of Christianity?

[JehovahsWitness]

Another way to ask this question is, are practicing Jews justified in rejecting the Greek scriptures as being incompatible with the Hebrew scriptures? Or are the believers in the divine origin of the Greek scriptures (Christians), justified in saying that the two testaments are a consistent, coherent message from God?

I think the scriptures are compatible and there is no problem between them. The problem is in how some people interpret the scriptures by their own desires.

I have to agree. If we accept the "progressive" nature if scripture, all the books can be harmonized nicely.


JW