Just WHO is God?

[MadJW]

In world religion there all kinds of Gods.
I, personally, have examined most of them and found them lacking.
Then I come to 'Christian' religion, and find that the majority of them don't know God at ALL!
I think one can have a serious debate on THIS site!

The Bible= Jehovah (Name removed by most 'Christian' churches)
Churchianity= there's Three!

[tigger 2]

[Replying to Miles in post #9]

tigger 2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:25 pm
John 1:1c - "and the Word was a god"

All 18 parallel constructions to John 1:1c in John's writings are translated as indefinite count nouns (e.g., "a prophet," "a man," "a king," etc.,).
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... 11c-a.html

Miles wrote:

"Why?
"Of the 62 Bibles I checked none use the indefinite article "a" before "god." Only in John 1:1 of the New World Translation does one find "a god." Why? What is the significant difference in denotation between "god" and "a god" in the verse? "
..................................................
When one actually, carefully, studies my two studies provided by the two links given above, it will become clear. If one is not interested enough in the subject to carefully study the facts, it will remain unknown.

[MadJW]

"Stab" is correct...

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Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate.

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Wow! NOTHING can bring debate faster.
I'm outta here.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #9]

tigger 2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:25 pm
John 1:1c - "and the Word was a god"

All 18 parallel constructions to John 1:1c in John's writings are translated as indefinite count nouns (e.g., "a prophet," "a man," "a king," etc.,).
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... 11c-a.html

Miles wrote:

"Why?
"Of the 62 Bibles I checked none use the indefinite article "a" before "god." Only in John 1:1 of the New World Translation does one find "a god." Why? What is the significant difference in denotation between "god" and "a god" in the verse? "
..................................................
When one actually, carefully, studies my two studies provided by the two links given above, it will become clear. If one is not interested enough in the subject to carefully study the facts, it will remain unknown.

Your two studies cleared up nothing in regard to my question. However, I do note that when stuck for an answer its far easier to shove the responsibility onto those who ask rather than answer a question in your own words. But because it's not the first time I've seen a JW duck responsibility by using such escape tactics it doesn't come as any surprise.


Have a good day

.

[tigger 2]

[Replying to Miles in post #9]

tigger 2 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:25 pm
John 1:1c - "and the Word was a god"

All 18 parallel constructions to John 1:1c in John's writings are translated as indefinite count nouns (e.g., "a prophet," "a man," "a king," etc.,).
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... 11c-a.html

Miles wrote:

"Why?
"Of the 62 Bibles I checked none use the indefinite article "a" before "god." Only in John 1:1 of the New World Translation does one find "a god." Why? What is the significant difference in denotation between "god" and "a god" in the verse? "
..................................................
When one actually, carefully, studies my two studies provided by the two links given above, it will become clear. If one is not interested enough in the subject to carefully study the facts, it will remain unknown.

Your two studies cleared up nothing in regard to my question. However, I do note that when stuck for an answer its far easier to shove the responsibility onto those who ask rather than answer a question in your own words. But because it's not the first time I've seen a JW duck responsibility by using such escape tactics it doesn't come as any surprise.


Have a good day

.

You clearly have not read them with care! Has anyone here read them carefully and not understood that men and angels who support God have been called gods? Or, why John 1:1c can be honestly translated "a god" instead of "God"?

[onewithhim]

.
Not understanding. Exactly what does "The Word was god" mean? How can a word be god? Could the Word have been anything else other than god? Was god anything more than the Word?


.

Both Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time, and are thus called God because that's where they got their Authority,

Maybe someone else will take a stab at answering my questions.

1. Exactly what does "The Word was god" mean?

2. How can a word be god?

3. Could the Word have been anything else other than god?

4. Was god anything more than the Word?

.

"The Word was god" is to be translated according to rules for rendering Greek into English. One rule is to add an "a" in front of that god. The Word was Jesus, and he was "a god," or, a revered, important, powerful individual. Jesus was a "word" because, as has been explained here by others, he represented Almighty God, and spoke as Jehovah told him to speak. (John 5:43; John 7:16; John 8:28)

[onewithhim]

John 1:1c - "and the Word was a god"

All 18 parallel constructions to John 1:1c in John's writings are translated as indefinite count nouns (e.g., "a prophet," "a man," "a king," etc.,).
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... 11c-a.html

Why?
Of the 62 Bibles I checked none use the indefinite article "a" before "god." Only in John 1:1 of the New World Translation does one find "a god." Why? What is the significant difference in denotation between "god" and "a god" in the verse?

.

There are versions that include "a" before the last "god." The Emphatic Diaglottby Benjamin Wilson is one, and Moffatt's Translation renders the verse "and the Word was divine." Most other versions just go along with the King James Version which has been considered the authority on these matters. Most versions do not follow the rules for translating Greek into English. The KJV was translated, not from the original language, but from Latin.

[Miles]

.
Not understanding. Exactly what does "The Word was god" mean? How can a word be god? Could the Word have been anything else other than god? Was god anything more than the Word?


.

Both Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time, and are thus called God because that's where they got their Authority,

Maybe someone else will take a stab at answering my questions.

1. Exactly what does "The Word was god" mean?

2. How can a word be god?

3. Could the Word have been anything else other than god?

4. Was god anything more than the Word?

.

"The Word was god" is to be translated according to rules for rendering Greek into English. One rule is to add an "a" in front of that god.

Then why isn't there an "a" in front of "God" in Genesis 1:3?

.......3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

OR an "a" in front of "God" in 2 Chronicles 22:7

.......7 But God brought about the downfall of A·ha·ziʹah by his coming to Je·hoʹram;

Or an "a" in front of "God" in Romans 4:20

.......20 But because of the promise of God, he did not waver in a lack of faith;

The Word was Jesus, and he was "a god," or, a revered, important, powerful individual.

"Was a god" implies Jesus could very well be a god among at least one other god, and even among many, many gods. Whereas saying "The Word was Jesus, and he was 'god,'. . . . ." implies there there is only one god. Just like the difference between "being President of the USA" and "being a President of the USA." The "a" only functions to indicate other gods, but maybe this is what you mean; there were other gods around. Yes? No?

.

[Miles]

John 1:1c - "and the Word was a god"

All 18 parallel constructions to John 1:1c in John's writings are translated as indefinite count nouns (e.g., "a prophet," "a man," "a king," etc.,).
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... 11c-a.html

Why?
Of the 62 Bibles I checked none use the indefinite article "a" before "god." Only in John 1:1 of the New World Translation does one find "a god." Why? What is the significant difference in denotation between "god" and "a god" in the verse?

.

There are versions that include "a" before the last "god." The Emphatic Diaglottby Benjamin Wilson is one,

Yes it is, and its plates and copyright having been inherited by Charles Taze Russell, no doubt it was pretty much taken word for word to create the New World Translation.

and Moffatt's Translation renders the verse "and the Word was divine."

Just another interpretation.


.

[tigger 2]

[Replying to Miles in post #18]

Miles, unless you do some actual study, you will never know the truth of this important scripture (and others).

First, we're speaking, not only of just the writings of John only, but of how he uses or omits the nominative case article (ho) with the nominative case noun theos. Particularly important, according to most trinitarian scholars themselves, is when the predicate noun (theos in John 1:1c) is found before its verb in the Greek.

All the uses of "God" you have chosen have the definite article ("the") before them. To see it in the OT, you need to look in the ancient Greek translation of the OT, the Septuagint. One of your examples uses theos for God, but it is also preceded by the definite article (ho in Greek). This is what translators properly use to translate as "God" in English. Your other example from the OT is theou translated "God" because it has the article tou before it AND it is in the Genitive case which often uses the use or non-use of the article with great irregularity and is therefore an improper example. All this is carefully explained in my 2 studies found in the 2 links I've given you.

Ro. 4:20 also uses the Genitive theou and has the article tou before it .... Just a little honest study, please.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #18]

Miles, unless you do some actual study, you will never know the truth of this important scripture (and others).

First, we're speaking, not only of just the writings of John, but of how he uses or omits the nominative case article (ho) with the nominative case theos. Particularly important, according to most trinitarian scholars themselves, is when the predicate noun (theos in John 1:1c) is found before its verb in the Greek.

All the uses of "God" you have chosen have the definite article ("the") before them.

One (1) of them does, although it doesn't apply to god, but rather to "promise" in Romans 4:20. The other two, Genesis 1:3 and
2 Chronicles 22:7, have no "the" before "god." Or an "a."

Then why isn't there an "a" in front of "God" in Genesis 1:3?

.......3 "And God said, Let there be light,” and there was light."


OR an "a" in front of "God" in 2 Chronicles 22:7

......7 "But God brought about the downfall of A·ha·ziʹah by his coming to Je·hoʹram;"


Or an "a" in front of "God" in Romans 4:20

.......20 "But because of the promise of God, he did not waver in a lack of faith;"

So, just a little honest study, please. After all, the verses were taken as written straight from your Bible. (I'm assuming you're a JW. If not, my apologies.)

.