YOUR OWN PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS

[WinkyDinky]

Your private interpretations
is incorrect to scripture.
EVERYONE THAT POST
ON THIS FORUM EXCEPT I
THAT IS POSTING
WHAT THEY BELIEVE FROM THE BIBLE
IS POSTING THEIR OWN
PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS
OF THE SCRIPTURES.

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of the scripture
is of any private interpretation.

[1213]

...
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5

To understand that correctly, I recommend to read the whole Ecc.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Watch as reading scripture word for word disappears and all the "to understand correctly" comments start flowing in.

I have read all of Ecc many many many times and it doesn't change what is written at Ecc 9:5. But, please prove my point and bring your smoke and mirrors to change what it says. If you don't reply then you accept that what I say is true, people put their beliefs ahead of the word for word of the Bible.

Ecc. says in the end:

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecc. 12:7

What do you think spirit is? If your spirit goes to God, is it dead, are you dead then?

But, I agree, the dead don't know, and some seem to be dead already, even though their body is still alive. But, maybe not all souls are dead.

[2timothy316]

...
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5

To understand that correctly, I recommend to read the whole Ecc.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Watch as reading scripture word for word disappears and all the "to understand correctly" comments start flowing in.

I have read all of Ecc many many many times and it doesn't change what is written at Ecc 9:5. But, please prove my point and bring your smoke and mirrors to change what it says. If you don't reply then you accept that what I say is true, people put their beliefs ahead of the word for word of the Bible.

Ecc. says in the end:

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecc. 12:7

What do you think spirit is? If your spirit goes to God, is it dead, are you dead then?

Ecc 12:7 doesn't negate Ecc 9:5-10. Now, watch I use the Bible to answer your question.

Spirit is called many things in the Bible. Note some other translations of Ecc 12:7 and then compare Genesis 2:7.

Contemporary English Version
So our bodies return to the earth, and the life-giving breath returns to God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Then the dust [of mortals] goes back to the ground as it was before, and the breath of life goes back to God who gave it.

Good News Translation
Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.

New American Bible
And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it.

NET Bible
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life's breath returns to God who gave it.

New Revised Standard Version
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.

Now note Genesis 2:7, "And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person."
Also note 6:17, "As for me, I am going to bring floodwaters upon the earth to destroy from under the heavens all flesh that has the breath of life. Everything on the earth will perish."
The same base Hebrew word used for spirit in Ecc 12:7 are also used in these verses. Note how the Bible is in harmony with the comparing of these verses. I gave no private interpretation. I let the Bible explain the Bible.

So Ecc 12:7 is not talking about the spirit body of a person going back to God but their breath of life. Which seems to be a simple term to describe what makes a person and animals alive. When it's gone, they're dead. They know nothing, they feel nothing. They go back what they were before they were alive. Who knows anything or feels anything before their birth? There is no existence before life there is none after. When a person dies there is not more life.

But, I agree, the dead don't know, and some seem to be dead already, even though their body is still alive. But, maybe not all souls are dead.

This an example of a private interpretation as I was talking about. This what the verse looks like to a person that has been taught maybe their whole life that they have an eternal soul. Their dogma will not allow them to look at the scripture in any other way. While it might seem like they are being faithful, it's not actually faith at all but tradition. Its what they have always believed and therefore everything they hear or read is colored to match that tradition and many see no reason to change it. It might even terrify some to even think for a moment they when the die, they do not go on living somewhere else. Interpretations like this are the result of not using the Bible to explain the Bible and putting one's personal dogma before what one reads in the Bible. Thus this is why I read something different from those that do put doctrine before the Bible and use their doctrine to color what they read.

[2timothy316]

This type of talk terrifies those that still can't accept death.

As an atheist, to me death is just reality. It's a horrid reality, but it is reality.

Of course I should try to be a good person. That's independent of whether or not I'll be rewarded for it. In fact the reward sort of spoils it. Being human has to be more than being a Pavlovian dog, salivating for the bell because it signals a reward.

Christians should want to be a good person without expecting a reward. The Bible even says this. To do good just so one can be paid back in some way is a business transaction and not being a good person from the heart. If one does good for reward this is a selfish reason. Matt 6:2

I suspect it's a reality to those that claim to believe in life after death as well. No matter how pleasant the afterlife they claim to believe in, you don't see them flocking to it. And if people do flock to it, they get called a crazy cult. They get called that, by the religious people who are apparently the five out of six people who believe in some sort of afterlife.

People don't actually believe it in any numbers despite saying they do, or you'd see them doing fringe things like Koolaiding themselves off or suicide bombing. The fact that they will all call the fringies that do these things crazy proves they do not believe it. And the kicker is that if any of it is real, we're not supposed to believe it. Because then we're just Pavlovian dogs.

There are some good points here. If Heaven is where they really want to be, what are they still doing here? Many think of life on Earth is just a stepping stone to something better. They certainly have treated the Earth as 2nd rate...maybe not even that good. I personally love the Earth and everything on it. I think it's a wonderful gift to mankind and it saddens me so much to see what mankind has done to it. It reminds me of Yoda council to Luke about always looking to the future and being something more than what he was now. Never his mind on where he was in the present and what is was doing. Then calls him reckless because of that kind of attitude. Isn't that mankind treatment of the Earth?

With all that being said, and while I do not believe that when I die I'm going to Heaven, Hell, go to some spirit realm, or I become a ghost. I also believe that death doesn't necessarily mean the end of a person. That doesn't mean I believe in an 'afterlife' but I believe one can live again.

[WebersHome]

.

With all that being said, and while I do not believe that when I die I'm going to Heaven, Hell . . .

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church back in 1944, and in time catechized enough to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

Whereas the nuns did an adequate job of teaching me about Hell, the lessons weren't enough to convince me I was in serious danger of going there. Years later as an adult, I began reading the Bible for myself and came to the realization that there was an excellent chance that I could end up on the wrong side of things.

That realization was very disturbing, and was keeping me up at nights worrying about it till I discussed my anxiety with a radio pastor in Vista California who managed to convince me that Jesus was an honest man and would never go back on his word; for example:

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Jesus and his Father are offering folks a reliable safety net to rescue them from a fate that they not only fully deserve, but are on track to get unless they speak up and tell God they'd like to take advantage of His son's death.

NOTE: The nuns taught me Jesus gave his life for the sins of the world, but failed to mention that God had me in mind when His son went to the cross.

● Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray: each of us has turned to his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_

[2timothy316]

.

With all that being said, and while I do not believe that when I die I'm going to Heaven, Hell . . .

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church back in 1944, and in time catechized enough to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

Whereas the nuns did an adequate job of teaching me about Hell, the lessons weren't enough to convince me I was in serious danger of going there. Years later as an adult, I began reading the Bible for myself and came to the realization that there was an excellent chance that I could end up on the wrong side of things.

That realization was very disturbing, and was keeping me up at nights worrying about it till I discussed my anxiety with a radio pastor in Vista California who managed to convince me that Jesus was an honest man and would never go back on his word; for example:

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Jesus and his Father are offering folks a reliable safety net to rescue them from a fate that they not only fully deserve, but are on track to get unless they speak up and tell God they'd like to take advantage of His son's death.

NOTE: The nuns taught me Jesus gave his life for the sins of the world, but failed to mention that God had me in mind when His son went to the cross.

● Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray: each of us has turned to his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_

So how does your upbringing influence what is written at Ecc 9:5, 6 which says, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all."
When we read that scripture and leave it as it says, then even if a person were in Hell and since the scripture says dead people don't know anything, they know no pain or suffering. Keeping with the OP theme, do you turn to a private interpretation to change what it says so that a dead person knows they are in Hell?

[Tcg]

[Replying to WinkyDinky in post #1]

Moderator Action

Thread closed. Please create a thread in a debate subforum with a question to debate.

______________

Moderator actions indicate that a thread/post has been locked, moved, merged, or split.