Why Did God Make Humans in the First Place?

[boatsnguitars]

The Theist's Nightmare:

P1. If an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god exists, then evil does not.
P2. There is evil in the world.
C1. Therefore, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god does not exist.

This is the traditional Problem of Evil and it's given Theists nightsweats for centuries. It is one of the reason many people start their exit from religion.

Now, I will let the Theists try to explain it away, but there is one simple problem with all their answers (which usually end with "There may be logical reasons God allows evil for some greater purpose.")

Why did God create Human's at all? Human's, as we have seen, are - if not the source of Evil - are the sole recipient of all suffering. (I would add animals, but many Christians claim animals either don't suffer or they deserve the suffering we impose on them).

God, being Perfect, had no need to create a world in which there was suffering, and if he created Humans for the sole purpose of having things worship him, or entertain him, he chose a very sick way to do it.

After all, he could have made an infinite number of Gods.

Theists argue against this by claiming there can only be one God. By what rule? They claim that there would be a power struggle, but how so? If you have Perfect Beings that have no need to compete over resources, and are All Loving, how is there any struggle? After all, Christians are happy to claim Jesus was perfect and gets along with God, so why was God unable to make even greater beings than Jesus?

Angels, you say? Well, they don't exist, but the story of Satan only shows how a lesser being than a God would inevitably lead to evil and suffering - and he allows it.

So, Theists have to logically explain why an Omnipotent, All-Loving God allows evil and suffering, when he could have avoided all of it to begin with by either not creating beings, or making Gods equal to him.

Checkmate, Theists.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yeahhh...Theists do vaguely explain that God wanted company. Aren't angels company? Mind, that a bunch of them, even knowing he could wipe them out in a sec. still rebelled, shows they had Free Will, too; but of course it is all part of God's plan, just like setting up the elaborate charade of Eden to invent Sin and engineer the Fall as T Rex with his six inch fangs wasn't doing well on his vegetarian diet. And after all, God had his rows of shiny new furnaces in the custom - made hell and needed Satan to oversee the band of fallen angels required to polish them, and of course he needed men to stuff in them and so humung beans were required. to be created.

Which sorta answers the question, though I don't think it is one that our theist friends will care for, very much.

[Miles]

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But the neat thing with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the only religions I'm aware of that postulate an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god, is that their sources of information, the Tanakh, Bible, and, I believe, the Quran, can be cherry picked so as to construct the most favorable god possible----a deity who is all-loving, righteous, fair, just, the truth, supreme, morally correct, worthy of worship, etc.etc.----all the while ignoring his faults, where he admits to creating evil, lies, makes mistakes, condones slavery, practices genocide, is intolerant and jealous, visits his wrath upon the innocent, and is unforgiving.

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[Athetotheist]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #1

Theists argue against this by claiming there can only be one God.

You don't seem to know much about theism.

Ever hear of polytheism?

I've read about an African legend which tells that God has a bumbling, inept brother who's always messing up the divine order. I've always found that story rather intriguing.

In any case, theists aren't nearly as jittery about the problem of evil as you make it sound and it isn't productive to take hamfisted, broad-brush swipes at things which are far more nuanced.

I know, I know......they can't all be right. Right? Maybe they can't all be literally right, but theism is such a broad field that you can hardly "checkmate" it in one move.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #1

Theists argue against this by claiming there can only be one God.

You don't seem to know much about theism.

Ever hear of polytheism?

I've read about an African legend which tells that God has a bumbling, inept brother who's always messing up the divine order. I've always found that story rather intriguing.

In any case, theists aren't nearly as jittery about the problem of evil as you make it sound and it isn't productive to take hamfisted, broad-brush swipes at things which are far more nuanced.

I know, I know......they can't all be right. Right? Maybe they can't all be literally right, but theism is such a broad field that you can hardly "checkmate" it in one move.

Reminds me rather of Gnosticism, where one God is the evil one and the other is the good guy. And the thing about Polytheism is how often it seems to have a top god that becomes like The God in the end and the others are just godlike beings. Still I won't deny that the profession of just one god existing and none of the others are real has (or so i suspect) been one of the reasons for the success and persistence of the Abrahamic religions.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHY HAS GOD PERMITTED EVIL?

God has temporarily permitted evil in order for the issue if universal sovereignty to be settled. This is necessary to preserve the long term happiness of all creatures that process free will.

FURTHER READING Why does God allow evil and suffering?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... suffering/




RELATED POSTS

Does the bible not speak of God creating evil (Isaiah 45:7; Ex 32:14)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 07#p906407

Why has God permitted evil? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1117885#p1117885

Is it not evil to PERMIT evil?
viewtopic.php?p=1117966#p1117966

What is the issue of universal Sovereigntyo? [Defined]
viewtopic.php?p=1031210#p1031210

Did God create the DEVIL?
viewtopic.php?p=359210#p359210

To learn more go to other posts related to

OMNIPOTENCE , SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE and ...THE PERMISSION OF EVIL

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #6

That's your take on it, but there are others.

God has temporarily permitted evil in order for the issue if universal sovereignty to be settled.

"The New Testament is fertile ground for this outlook. It is only here that Satan becomes a wicked, rebellious angel, which quite likely evolved the character called Satan into an evil angel and enemy of God based on theological Persian dualism where such a construct is present."

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... w-of-satan
(emphasis mine)

[brunumb]

God has temporarily permitted evil in order for the issue if universal sovereignty to be settled.

Permitting evil is in itself evil. Is there no other way for God to solve this so-called issue of sovereignty? Sounds like a made-up issue to me.

This is necessary to preserve the long term happiness of all creatures that process free will.

Please show how permitting evil accomplishes that.

[Diogenes]

WHY HAS GOD PERMITTED EVIL?

God has temporarily permitted evil in order for the issue if universal sovereignty to be settled. This is necessary to preserve the long term happiness of all creatures that process free will.

This completely ignores the main question, Why Did God Make Humans in the First Place?
There wasn't even an attempt to answer.

With the other question, "Why God permits evil" we have, maybe, a poor attempt to answer... perhaps the worst I've ever seen:
God allows evil to settle the 'issue' of "universal sovereignty." Whatever that "problem" was, why did it need to be solved?
Whatever the reason for God to permit billions to suffer, some without limbs, some without sight, many in great pain and eternal agony according to "God's Word," it cannot possibly justify such horrific suffering.

[Miles]

WHY HAS GOD PERMITTED EVIL?

Considering Isaiah 45:7, a better question would be:

WHY DOES GOD CREATE Evil, or any of the other interpretations of רַע (ra') in the verse, such as creating:

calamity?
disaster?
doom?
adversity?
hard times?
bad times?
woe?
sorrow?
trouble(s)?
discord?

All of them bringing misery to his creation.


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