It's a fair question to ask how a perfect Being, Omni in every (Good) way, and has all the attributes Theists claim simply happened to exist. The odds of this happening must be staggering.
In fact, imagine how a God - let's say God A - is exactly like OmniGod, but with one ounce of difference in their - oh, let's say sense of beauty. It's 99.999999999% perfect in establishing the objective measure of beauty, but not quite perfect. Would we know? Would we care? What if it was only 60% perfect?
What if anyone of it's attributes were less than 100% - would we know?
Then there are an infinite number of Gods: GodB, GodC.... each with just a little difference. - Yet, Theists can't know which, or explain how they would know if, say, God is Perfect in every way (which is problematic), or just really nice in a few ways that make us Apes very impressed.
I think Theists simply claim God is Perfect, and they try to convince us with an argument that goes: If you can imagine it, it's true. (Ontological Argument)
So, a couple things for Theists to ponder:
1. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?
2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)
3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)
4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?
Who Made God?
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- boatsnguitars
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Who Made God?
Post #1“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
- boatsnguitars
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #2No takers? I wonder why?
I wonder if it's because "God just "is" and that's the end of it. Stop asking questions" isn't as good an answer as Theists would like?
I wonder if it's because "God just "is" and that's the end of it. Stop asking questions" isn't as good an answer as Theists would like?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
- Adonai Yahweh
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #31. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?
By applying the principle of causality , cause-effect , if the effect is perfect then the cause if perfect . The big bang perfectly occurred in a way that the earth was formed . Living organisms and non-living were perfectly created that they would naturally evolve with the environment .
We judge the designer by the perfection of the design . Big bang perfect , evolution perfect , plant and trees perfect , animals perfect etc ... everything designed has a natural order2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)
3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)
We are not in the beginning stages we are at the end stages , and we can tell that through our the environment is decaying meaning that in the inhabitants of the environment will also decay and die . During the prehistoric period the dinosaurs biodiversity was already declining before the asteroid hit . The earth has had very very near attempt of meteors hitting the earth
4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?
God created the big bang compare genesis 1:1-3 " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. " Compare that with what they said about how the big bang started ... it sounds similar .
If you have time check out this video .
[media]https://www.youtube.com/live/CFYswvGoaPU?feature=share[/media]
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #4I don't see why odds would have anything to do with the existence of such an entity.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:26 am It's a fair question to ask how a perfect Being, Omni in every (Good) way, and has all the attributes Theists claim simply happened to exist. The odds of this happening must be staggering.
Being we are human in a particular position, it is unlikely we would know in any meaningful way. The best we could hope for is to get the gist.In fact, imagine how a God - let's say God A - is exactly like OmniGod, but with one ounce of difference in their - oh, let's say sense of beauty. It's 99.999999999% perfect in establishing the objective measure of beauty, but not quite perfect. Would we know? Would we care? What if it was only 60% perfect?
What if anyone of it's attributes were less than 100% - would we know?
The ape aspect of us can indeed be impressed, and also even indifferent. There is a broad spectrum of positions of belief on the matter.Then there are an infinite number of Gods: GodB, GodC.... each with just a little difference. - Yet, Theists can't know which, or explain how they would know if, say, God is Perfect in every way (which is problematic), or just really nice in a few ways that make us Apes very impressed.
There may be merit in approaching it in that manner.I think Theists simply claim God is Perfect, and they try to convince us with an argument that goes: If you can imagine it, it's true. (Ontological Argument)
Theism is greatly faceted and there is no one answer provided. What is a "perfect" being? The concept is reliant upon consciousness and consciousness is subjective in nature.So, a couple things for Theists to ponder:
1. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?
There term is subjective. How does anyone know what perfection is?2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)
Perhaps an god-concept is "perfect" for the one subjectively believing in it, but sure as eggs, for another the concept would not be.
I think that the universe is a good candidate for birthing gods.3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)
The Big Bang theory is not an atheist theory.4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?
There is a theory related to the BBT that once the manifestation of the current universe is finished, another one will emerge from "out of the ashes" so to speak.
I think it is a reasonable theory.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #5People cooked up the gods. They made every one of them. Some a bit daffy, like:
The Hindu god Ganesha, who has four arms and the head of an elephant
Or the Greek god Aphrodite, who ran around completely naked tempting the other gods.
Or the Egyptian god Khepri, who has the head of a beetle
Or the Roman god Cupid, the god of erotic desire, love, attraction, and affection, and who sprouted wings no less
Or the Norse god Loki, who was the god of mayhem and mischief
Or the Abrahamic God Jehovah, who, while preaching love and forgiveness, was satisfied in having innocent women, children, and infants killed.
Or the Greek god Aphrodite, who ran around completely naked tempting the other gods.
Or the Egyptian god Khepri, who has the head of a beetle
Or the Roman god Cupid, the god of erotic desire, love, attraction, and affection, and who sprouted wings no less
Or the Norse god Loki, who was the god of mayhem and mischief
Or the Abrahamic God Jehovah, who, while preaching love and forgiveness, was satisfied in having innocent women, children, and infants killed.
Others . . . . . . . . . . well . . . . . hmm . . . seems I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #6[Replying to Miles in post #5]
"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #7The norm.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:35 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5]
"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #8And what is that?Miles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:38 pmThe norm.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:35 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5]
"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #9Here, I've looked it up for you, but after this you're on your own.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:47 pmAnd what is that?Miles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:38 pmThe norm.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:35 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5]
"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
.
norm
noun: norm; noun: the norm
1. something that is usual, typical, or standard.
"this system has been the norm in Germany for decades"
source:Oxford Languages Dictionary·
noun: norm; noun: the norm
1. something that is usual, typical, or standard.
"this system has been the norm in Germany for decades"
source:Oxford Languages Dictionary·
.
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Re: Who Made God?
Post #10The Hindu god Ganesha, who has four arms and the head of an elephantMiles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:19 pmHere, I've looked it up for you, but after this you're on your own.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:47 pmAnd what is that?Miles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:38 pmThe norm.William wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:35 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5]
"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.
.
norm.
noun: norm; noun: the norm
1. something that is usual, typical, or standard.
"this system has been the norm in Germany for decades"
source:Oxford Languages Dictionary·
The Greek god Aphrodite, who ran around completely naked tempting the other gods.
The Egyptian god Khepri, who has the head of a beetle
The Roman god Cupid, the god of erotic desire, love, attraction, and affection, and who sprouted wings no less
The Norse god Loki, who was the god of mayhem and mischief
The Abrahamic God Jehovah, who, while preaching love and forgiveness, was satisfied in having innocent women, children, and infants killed.
All have been "the norm' at one stage or another, so "norm" is simply "off kilter" to those outside of whatever the norm is.
and
The norm, when observed in such a manner, can be seen to be off kilter, so overall it is simply another case of subjective opinion, and unhelpful.
.Others . . . . . . . . . . well . . . . . hmm . . . seems I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect
Out of the list you provided, I would be looking for something which aligns the best with the nature of nature as being at least as 'norm' as one can get, assuming nature itself could be considered 'norm'...
I cannot claim for sure that we do not exist within a created thing, so any "GOD" which might have created this thing we are experiencing, wouldn't be something I could claim that people invented.
I am aware that this kind of claim is the norm for some...and why they would consider the idea of existing within a creation to being off kilter...