Who Made God?

[boatsnguitars]

It's a fair question to ask how a perfect Being, Omni in every (Good) way, and has all the attributes Theists claim simply happened to exist. The odds of this happening must be staggering.

In fact, imagine how a God - let's say God A - is exactly like OmniGod, but with one ounce of difference in their - oh, let's say sense of beauty. It's 99.999999999% perfect in establishing the objective measure of beauty, but not quite perfect. Would we know? Would we care? What if it was only 60% perfect?
What if anyone of it's attributes were less than 100% - would we know?

Then there are an infinite number of Gods: GodB, GodC.... each with just a little difference. - Yet, Theists can't know which, or explain how they would know if, say, God is Perfect in every way (which is problematic), or just really nice in a few ways that make us Apes very impressed.

I think Theists simply claim God is Perfect, and they try to convince us with an argument that goes: If you can imagine it, it's true. (Ontological Argument)

So, a couple things for Theists to ponder:

1. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?
2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)
3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)
4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?

[boatsnguitars]

No takers? I wonder why?

I wonder if it's because "God just "is" and that's the end of it. Stop asking questions" isn't as good an answer as Theists would like?

[Adonai Yahweh]

1. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?

By applying the principle of causality , cause-effect , if the effect is perfect then the cause if perfect . The big bang perfectly occurred in a way that the earth was formed . Living organisms and non-living were perfectly created that they would naturally evolve with the environment .

2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)

We judge the designer by the perfection of the design . Big bang perfect , evolution perfect , plant and trees perfect , animals perfect etc ... everything designed has a natural order

3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)

We are not in the beginning stages we are at the end stages , and we can tell that through our the environment is decaying meaning that in the inhabitants of the environment will also decay and die . During the prehistoric period the dinosaurs biodiversity was already declining before the asteroid hit . The earth has had very very near attempt of meteors hitting the earth

4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?

God created the big bang compare genesis 1:1-3 " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. " Compare that with what they said about how the big bang started ... it sounds similar .

If you have time check out this video .

[media]https://www.youtube.com/live/CFYswvGoaPU?feature=share[/media]

[William]

It's a fair question to ask how a perfect Being, Omni in every (Good) way, and has all the attributes Theists claim simply happened to exist. The odds of this happening must be staggering.

I don't see why odds would have anything to do with the existence of such an entity.

In fact, imagine how a God - let's say God A - is exactly like OmniGod, but with one ounce of difference in their - oh, let's say sense of beauty. It's 99.999999999% perfect in establishing the objective measure of beauty, but not quite perfect. Would we know? Would we care? What if it was only 60% perfect?
What if anyone of it's attributes were less than 100% - would we know?

Being we are human in a particular position, it is unlikely we would know in any meaningful way. The best we could hope for is to get the gist.

Then there are an infinite number of Gods: GodB, GodC.... each with just a little difference. - Yet, Theists can't know which, or explain how they would know if, say, God is Perfect in every way (which is problematic), or just really nice in a few ways that make us Apes very impressed.

The ape aspect of us can indeed be impressed, and also even indifferent. There is a broad spectrum of positions of belief on the matter.

I think Theists simply claim God is Perfect, and they try to convince us with an argument that goes: If you can imagine it, it's true. (Ontological Argument)

There may be merit in approaching it in that manner.

So, a couple things for Theists to ponder:

1. How do you explain the simple happenstance that a Perfect Being simply exists in it's Perfect, Full Form just as a matter of fact?

Theism is greatly faceted and there is no one answer provided. What is a "perfect" being? The concept is reliant upon consciousness and consciousness is subjective in nature.

2. How do you know God is perfect? (No, claiming the Bible says it doesn't count)

There term is subjective. How does anyone know what perfection is?
Perhaps an god-concept is "perfect" for the one subjectively believing in it, but sure as eggs, for another the concept would not be.

3. How do you know - since God is timeless - that we aren't in the beginning stages of a God being developed. 15 billion years would be a mere blip in time for God, so how do we know we aren't part of God's Evolution? (After all, we have evidence that Evolution exists - not that Beings simply always existed.)

I think that the universe is a good candidate for birthing gods.

4. How is the answer "God is eternal and doesn't need an explanation" sufficient, but not the same answer for the Big Bang under atheism?

The Big Bang theory is not an atheist theory.
There is a theory related to the BBT that once the manifestation of the current universe is finished, another one will emerge from "out of the ashes" so to speak.
I think it is a reasonable theory.

[Miles]

Who Made God?

People cooked up the gods. They made every one of them. Some a bit daffy, like:

The Hindu god Ganesha, who has four arms and the head of an elephant
Or the Greek god Aphrodite, who ran around completely naked tempting the other gods.
Or the Egyptian god Khepri, who has the head of a beetle
Or the Roman god Cupid, the god of erotic desire, love, attraction, and affection, and who sprouted wings no less
Or the Norse god Loki, who was the god of mayhem and mischief
Or the Abrahamic God Jehovah, who, while preaching love and forgiveness, was satisfied in having innocent women, children, and infants killed.

Others . . . . . . . . . . well . . . . . hmm . . . seems I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

.

[William]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...

The norm.

.

[William]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...

The norm.

.

And what is that?

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...

The norm.

.

And what is that?

Here, I've looked it up for you, but after this you're on your own.

norm
noun: norm; noun: the norm
1. something that is usual, typical, or standard.
"this system has been the norm in Germany for decades"
source:Oxford Languages Dictionary·

.

[William]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect.

"Off kilter" from what, you don't say...

The norm.

.

And what is that?

Here, I've looked it up for you, but after this you're on your own.

norm
noun: norm; noun: the norm
1. something that is usual, typical, or standard.
"this system has been the norm in Germany for decades"
source:Oxford Languages Dictionary·

.

The Hindu god Ganesha, who has four arms and the head of an elephant
The Greek god Aphrodite, who ran around completely naked tempting the other gods.
The Egyptian god Khepri, who has the head of a beetle
The Roman god Cupid, the god of erotic desire, love, attraction, and affection, and who sprouted wings no less
The Norse god Loki, who was the god of mayhem and mischief
The Abrahamic God Jehovah, who, while preaching love and forgiveness, was satisfied in having innocent women, children, and infants killed.

All have been "the norm' at one stage or another, so "norm" is simply "off kilter" to those outside of whatever the norm is.
and
The norm, when observed in such a manner, can be seen to be off kilter, so overall it is simply another case of subjective opinion, and unhelpful.

Others . . . . . . . . . . well . . . . . hmm . . . seems I can't think of any others who weren't a bit off kilter, at least in some respect

.

Out of the list you provided, I would be looking for something which aligns the best with the nature of nature as being at least as 'norm' as one can get, assuming nature itself could be considered 'norm'...

I cannot claim for sure that we do not exist within a created thing, so any "GOD" which might have created this thing we are experiencing, wouldn't be something I could claim that people invented.

I am aware that this kind of claim is the norm for some...and why they would consider the idea of existing within a creation to being off kilter...