Was Jesus' Sacrifice Meaningful?

[JoeMama]

Jesus spent some unpleasant hours on the cross, and a couple of days in a tomb, but he is still alive today, 2,000 years later, sitting forevermore in heavenly bliss at the right hand of God. If the price for living forever is being nailed to a cross and being shut up for a short while in a tomb, who wouldn't take that bargain? So why do people think Jesus made such a great sacrifice?

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus spent some unpleasant hours on the cross, and a couple of days in a tomb, but he is still alive today, 2,000 years later, sitting forevermore in heavenly bliss at the right hand of God. If the price for living forever is being nailed to a cross and being shut up for a short while in a tomb, who wouldn't take that bargain? So why do people think Jesus made such a great sacrifice?

I think it was a great sacrifice because Jesus was willing to suffer and die to save humanity from the prospect of endless death. Thanks to Jesus enduring torture and death, cancer, illness , old age and the death that results from such things will one day be things of the past.



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[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #11]

There's a good example of unsubstantiated promises. Why not now, hey?

[brunumb]

I think the sacrifice Jesus made was that he lived for us, served others and didn't live selfishly. All the kingdoms were offered for him and he could have had very nice and easy life. But he didn't choose that. Instead he chose to declare the message and serve people. I think that is a great sacrifice, not many do the same, especially if it means they will be tortured and killed for doing so.

No sacrifice. It was all part of the plan.

What great sacrifice is contained in what you have described? Ordinary people do similar all the time. In the end he was not killed for that life he lived. What did he really give up? Countless ordinary humans have endured immense suffering and given their lives without the certainty of coming back good as new a few hours later. There is nothing special in this Jesus scenario. It was all part of a plan and he knew that he was not giving anything up at all.

[brunumb]

I think it was a great sacrifice because Jesus was willing to suffer and die to save humanity from the prospect of endless death.

Many people have suffered as much, if not more than Jesus and died for their fellow human beings with no certainty of coming back good as new a few hours later. So, no, it was not a great sacrifice.

Thanks to Jesus enduring torture and death, cancer, illness , old age and the death that results from such things will one day be things of the past.

That is just an unsupported claim that has been tacked onto the story giving it some gravitas. Demonstrate that it is the truth.

[Miles]

I think the sacrifice Jesus made was that he lived for us, served others and didn't live selfishly. All the kingdoms were offered for him and he could have had very nice and easy life. But he didn't choose that. Instead he chose to declare the message and serve people. I think that is a great sacrifice, not many do the same, especially if it means they will be tortured and killed for doing so.

No sacrifice. It was all part of the plan.

That is a non-sequitur. Plans often involve sacrifice.

Considering the meaning of "sacrifice":

sacrifice
verb (used with object), sac·ri·ficed, sac·ri·fic·ing.
to surrender or give up, or permit injury or disadvantage to, for the sake of something else.
source: Dictionary.com

Often they do not. ..BUT just what do you see as being a non-sequitur? Keeping in mind the following:

non sequitur
[ non sek-wi-ter, -toor; Latin nohn se-kwi-toor ]
noun
1 Logic. an inference or a conclusion that does not follow from the premises.
2 a statement containing an illogical conclusion:
....The built environment has to be more presentable than it was in the past, but it's a non sequitur to claim that this must occur at the expense of cultural value.
3 something said or written that is unrelated to what immediately precedes:
....Your comment is at best a non sequitur, and bears zero relevance to the issue at point.
4 an illogical or unconnected shift from one thing to another:
....The Tibetan prints to the right of the formal portrait—with their religious figures and mandala-like patterns—initially seem like a non sequitur.
source: Dictionary.com

.

You appear to be saying that this was not a sacrifice because it was all part of the plan. (If I have misunderstood your meaning the please correct me.)

As I understand the fable, it wasn't because Jesus' death was part of the plan, but because his dying was the plan. It was god's intention that Jesus die,*/ ** something that, being part of the godhead, Jesus no doubt understood. Jesus' death was not a sacrifice but the intended and required end to his life. Therefore, Jesus' death was no sacrifice at all, but simply his planed demise, which I fail to see as a non-sequitur.

*"Jesus died so that humans could have their sins forgiven and receive endless life. (Romans 6:​23; Ephesians 1:7)."
source

** Then there's this bit of Baptist silliness:

10 Reasons Jesus Came to Die

1. To destroy hostility between races.
2. To give marriage its deepest meaning.
3. To absorb the wrath of God.
4. So that we would escape the curse of the law.
5. To reconcile us to God.
6. To show God’s love for sinners.
7. To show Jesus’s own love for us.
8. To take away our condemnation.
9. To bring us to God.
10. To give eternal life to all who believe on him.
source

.

[Purple Knight]

Many people have suffered as much, if not more than Jesus and died for their fellow human beings with no certainty of coming back good as new a few hours later. So, no, it was not a great sacrifice.

When I read it, I wasn't positive Jesus knew he'd come back. That's what I got from the "take this cup away from me" bit anyway.

What did he really give up?

Nevertheless I see this as a good question. If it's just that seven chickens are worth one pig, and nineteen thousand, five hundred and six pigs are worth one human, and a few days of suffering of one god is worth all the humans, that just seems dirty. Frankly it's pretty dirty that one person's suffering can pay for somebody else's sins anyway.

[JehovahsWitness]

...Jesus' death was not a sacrifice but the intended and required end to his life.

Correct me if I am mistaken but you seem to be refering to the bible narrative here. Is that what you are doing?


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Many people have suffered as much, if not more than Jesus and died for their fellow human beings with no certainty of coming back good as new a few hours later. So, no, it was not a great sacrifice.

When I read it, I wasn't positive Jesus knew he'd come back. That's what I got from the "take this cup away from me" bit anyway.

No. You can read that Jesus explicity stated that he would return to life after 3 days.

MARK 9: 30, 31

Going on from there, they passed through Galilee. But Jesus did not want anyone to know, because He was teaching His disciples. He told them, “ The Son of Man will be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill Him, and after three days He will rise.”

[JehovahsWitness]

What great sacrifice is contained in what you have described?

WHY WAS JESUS SACRIFICE GREAT?

I believe it was "great" because of what it cost him (eternal life as a human) because of how he paid it (unspeakable torture) and because of what it obtained (everlasting life for obedient mankind).



JW



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Did Jesus death meet the definition of a sacrifice?
viewtopic.php?p=793469#p793469

Would Jesus need to "stay dead" for the Ransom to be valid?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p875280

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viewtopic.php?p=848885#p848885

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viewtopic.php?p=869947#p869947

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For more details please go to other posts related to...

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[Miles]

...Jesus' death was not a sacrifice but the intended and required end to his life.

Correct me if I am mistaken but you seem to be refering to the bible narrative here. Is that what you are doing?

I'm relaying the plan "as I understand the fable." There was no consideration of surrendering or giving up anything. His unnatural death was a foregone inevitability from day one, which, if I'm following the claims of Jesus' previous existence correctly, he was well aware of.

.