Lying for the Lord

[JoeMama]

Do true believers accept the biblical teaching to "be ever ready to give a reason for your faith," (1 Peter 3:15), even if it means accepting and promoting as the truth something they intellectually know is probably false, as long as it helps maintain faith and the glory of God?

Would God approve of you lying to save a person from being cast into the fiery pits of eternal damnation?

[JehovahsWitness]

Do true believers accept the biblical teaching to "be ever ready to give a reason for your faith," (1 Peter 3:15), even if it means accepting and promoting as the truth something they intellectually know is probably false, as long as it helps maintain faith and the glory of God?

I do not agree with your interpretation of 1 Peter 3:15; therenis absolutely no mention therein of lying or any indication that defending why one believes in the truth involves lying.

1 PETER 3:15 NWT

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect

Does the book of Peter support defending something you "intellectually know is probably false"?

Absolutely not. Notice Peter wrote a Christian is to defend their acceptance of Christ in their HEARTS , a reference to the inner person, ones deepest feelings and motivations. Therefore the defence must be genuine and not a merely a position one does not fully believe to be true.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





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[boatsnguitars]

Absolutely not. Notice Peter wrote a Christian is to defend their acceptance of Christ in their HEARTS , a reference to the inner person, ones deepest feelings and motivations. Therefore the defence must be genuine and not a merely a position one does not fully believe to be true.

Interesting. So lying for a Good result is absolutely not a Christian ideal, but suffering, death, destruction and all that is just fine because it's for an ultimate Good.

Remember how you defended giving a child a shot - because to you that was the ultimate example of how we need to suffer for something better in the long run? If you don't recall, I'm sure I can paste it to my next post.

Remember how I was trying to get you to understand that a tiny shot was not really the suffering we were talking about, but you still defended the idea that suffering, sin, pain and all that was just fine because it's better to have that than not have Free Will?

But lying, that's completely out of the question?

Again, we are faced - once again - to realize Christianity can't address moral values.

[JehovahsWitness]

So lying for a Good result is absolutely not a Christian ideal, but suffering, death, destruction and all that is just fine because it's for an ultimate Good.

SHOULD A CHRISTIAN BE WILLING TO SUFFER FOR CHRIST?



If you mean should a Christian be ready to suffer for their beliefs , then yes, lying for Christ is not a biblically supported teaching, but suffering for Christ IS.

NOTE : Suffering for ones beliefs is not the same as "causing suffering for others" ; biblically a Christian must be willing to stand by his principles even if this results in his suffering personal loss or attracts attack or persecution. But he should never deliberately cause harm to others.

Is suffering fine?


Suffering is never "fine" in the sense that it is DESIRABLE; but temporary suffering is sometimes necessary in order to avoid a tragic end.

NOTE God is never the cause of suffering. He however has allowed suffering (caused by wicked individuals) for a good reason.

[JehovahsWitness]

IS SIN "FINE"?


No; the Christian position is that sin (any action, thought or condition that does not meet with Gods standards) is not desirable. Sadly because of our first parents Adam and Eve sin is a part of the human condition and God has chosen to tolerate imperfect humans because he loves us and has taken measures to eradicate sin in the future.

Does that mean that sin is "fine with God"?

No, tolerance does not mean approval and all those that wish to please God must do their very best to avoid behaviours God prohibits.

[boatsnguitars]

Absolutely not. Notice Peter wrote a Christian is to defend their acceptance of Christ in their HEARTS , a reference to the inner person, ones deepest feelings and motivations. Therefore the defence must be genuine and not a merely a position one does not fully believe to be true.

Interesting. So lying for a Good result is absolutely not a Christian ideal, but suffering, death, destruction and all that is just fine because it's for an ultimate Good.

If you mean should a Christian be ready to suffer for their beliefs , then yes, lying for Christ is not a biblically supported teaching, but suffering for Christ IS.

NOTE : Suffering for ones beliefs is not the same as "causing suffering for others" ; biblically a Christian must be willing to stand by his principles even if this results in his suffering personal loss or attracts attack or persecution. But he should never deliberately cause harm to others.

Is suffering fine?


Suffering is never "fine" in the sense that it is DESIRABLE; but temporary suffering is sometimes necessary in order to avoid a tragic end.


NOTE God is never the cause of suffering. He however has allowed suffering (caused by wicked individuals) for a good reason.

you've said that God will stop all the natural disasters, etc. Which means he isn't stopping them now - which means he is literally causing them to continue - causing suffering. I mean, come on, man. Get your story straight.

Also, Remember this:

2. Would it be immoral for me to knowingly feed my child lead or purposely cause him brain damage, in order to make him dumber - then say "Don't worry, he can still be happy?"

WOULD A LOVING FATHER ALLOW HIS CHILD TO SUFFER?


It would be immoral to cause pain for no good reason regardless of how happy the child could be ; it would not however be immoral to allow your child pain to avoid greater pain in the future. For example, most loving parents will allow their child to undergo a painful operation to avoid disease or death.



God has allowed his human children to temproarily suffer pain to avoid their suffering long term ill and permanent death; this is an act of wisdom and love.

REmember that? Yet, lying is not part of the deal? Making people suffer in all kinds of ways is "an act of wisdom and love" but if a lie would save people - no.

Do Christians have a fetish for suffering? Mother Theresa did, and she's used as the avatar of a True Chrisitan after Jesus.

[JehovahsWitness]

you've said that God will stop all the natural disasters, etc. Which means he isn't stopping them now..

That is correct.




Natural disasters have many causes, not least deforrestation, climate change through manmade pollution and the general mismanagement of the planet. Humans are largely responsible for much of the devestation caused by socalled "natural" disasters for example by buliding homes in vulnerable zones but they also do not have the power to forsee where or when certain potentially devastating events will occur.


All of the above God is tolerating for the moment as certain important issues must be settled first. Happily soon, God will intervene and install his own government under which all suffering and loss of life due to so called "natural disasters" will be a things of the past.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




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[JehovahsWitness]

IS GOD PRESENTLY MAKING PEOPLE SUFFER?

If by "making" you mean: is God giving people cancer? Is God stopping food from reaching those that need it? Is God robbing, raping, stealing from the poor? Is God causing so called "natural disasters"? etc, no God is not doing any of those things.




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Also, Remember this:

2. Would it be immoral for me to knowingly feed my child lead or purposely cause him brain damage, in order to make him dumber - then say "Don't worry, he can still be happy?"

WOULD A LOVING FATHER ALLOW HIS CHILD TO SUFFER?


It would be immoral to cause pain for no good reason regardless of how happy the child could be ; it would not however be immoral to allow your child pain to avoid greater pain in the future. For example, most loving parents will allow their child to undergo a painful operation to avoid disease or death.



God has allowed his human children to temproarily suffer pain to avoid their suffering long term ill and permanent death; this is an act of wisdom and love.

Yes I do.

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[JehovahsWitness]

Do Christians have a fetish for suffering?

I cannot answer for everyone that identifies as Christian, but personally no I do not. As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I can say our religion does not teach that suffering should be sought after for pleasurable means [see below] nor do we desire to suffer as if it in itself has merit. We would much rather live peaceful quiet lives serving our God without impediment. That said, we are prepared to suffer rather than compromise our beliefs.

FETISH

a form of sexual desire in which gratification is strongly linked to a particular object or activity or a part of the body other than the sexual organs.