Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

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JoeMama
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Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #1

Post by JoeMama »

The Bible says, "Ask and you shall receive."

A Harvard University study of about 2000 hospitalized coronary artery bypass graph surgeries showed that prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the patients' recoveries. God may have heard the prayers, but they seem to have been ignored.

(Google: intercessory prayer Dr. Herbert Benson)

Is this evidence that a prayer-answering god doesn't exist?

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #41

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 4:49 am It is a gift for righteous. And, if you are righteous, it will be visible in your actions. Righteous person speaks and acts righteously and those tell is the person righteous or not.

And justified by his blood. I understand it means, by coming on earth and declaring the message, people could become righteous and so could be saved from the judgment that comes for unrighteous.
Justified by his blood means to come to earth and declare a message?!?
You prove my point. :D

The scriptures I provided talk about leaving houses, blood and words for gaining eternal life, not righteousness.

2nd request:
1213: "Bible doesn't require belief in prayer for to get eternal life."
Clownboat: "So now the prayer of salvation is not real!"
Is the prayer of salvation a real thing or not?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #42

Post by 1213 »

Clownboat wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:40 pm Justified by his blood means to come to earth and declare a message?!?
Jesus was killed because of what he did, that is why it can be said justified by his blood. But, the crucial thing is his words, because:

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

His words can cause the change for to become righteous. And Jesus was killed because he declared the words. That is why it can be said the words and what they bring, comes with the price of his blood.
Clownboat wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:40 pm ...
Is the prayer of salvation a real thing or not?
Sorry, I am not sure what you mean with that. Please explain what is "prayer of salvation"?

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #43

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 5:57 am ...By Believing the right thing, one becomes 'Righteous', one doesn't have to Declare it.
...
Why do you think so?

I think it is more like, if person is righteous, he believes right things.

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #44

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:40 am Jesus was killed because of what he did, that is why it can be said justified by his blood. But, the crucial thing is his words, because:

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

His words can cause the change for to become righteous. And Jesus was killed because he declared the words. That is why it can be said the words and what they bring, comes with the price of his blood.

So now we are back to blood I see.
I understand why you keep quote mining this out:
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life" (Matthew 19:29).

Matthew 12:37:
"for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

I would stick my head in the sand about this as well once I noticed that no blood or righteousness are involved with gaining eternal life. It all comes down to what verses you want to use to justify the belief you desire to hold it seems.
Sorry, I am not sure what you mean with that. Please explain what is "prayer of salvation"?
It's the prayer that churches use, usually via an alter call or street evangelizing where they gain new members by getting them to pray to a god and commit their life to it in hopes of gaining eternal life in a heaven after they have died.
In nutshell, you are accepting the idea that you are sick and that a god concept is the medicine for this sickness you have been informed you suffer from. The trick is getting people to believe they are sick in the first place. That is why religious parents tell their children at a very young age that they suffer from this sickness. It is not impossible, but certainly harder to do to adults. It explains why we have religion due to geography on this planet as well.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #45

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:42 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 5:57 am ...By Believing the right thing, one becomes 'Righteous', one doesn't have to Declare it.
...
Why do you think so?

I think it is more like, if person is righteous, he believes right things.
I think so because that is Paul's whole thesis. The NT is in line with this. Jesusfaith is what makes for righteousness, not good works. The point (which you seem to have forgotten) was that believing right means being righteous even if you never go out and preach it. That was the point.
One of these days I'll have to post of'skipping over' apologetics. I became aware of this from the very start - the response would sorta skip from a word or two to another while skipping the sense and context of what the argument actually was. It's why Bible apologists sometimes seem to lose track of the actual argument. Not all. Some are well able to stick to the point, but you ain't one of 'em. :)

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #46

Post by Avoice »

Why even do it?

God can hear our prayers. Asking someone to take our prayers to him is an insult. Why do people think God needs a middle man? He needs nothing.

“ Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened,
That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy,
That it cannot hear”

So quit hiding from him. You got something to say to him then say it. He doesn’t need a messenger to hear your words. Don’t you get it? He needs no one. Come on now.., saying your prayers to a dead guy instead of the God of Israel? Why? Stop talking to Gods creation. Talk to the creator. Don’t you love him? Then tell him. Not someone else. Certainly not someone who died 2000 years ago.

How do people even think they can count on Jesus when he said this
“ In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;”
OH… THAT IS COMFORTING. NOT!!! He isn’t promising you anything

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #47

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:37 pm
1213 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:42 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 5:57 am ...By Believing the right thing, one becomes 'Righteous', one doesn't have to Declare it.
...
Why do you think so?

I think it is more like, if person is righteous, he believes right things.
I think so because that is Paul's whole thesis. The NT is in line with this. Jesusfaith is what makes for righteousness, not good works. The point (which you seem to have forgotten) was that believing right means being righteous even if you never go out and preach it. That was the point.
One of these days I'll have to post of'skipping over' apologetics. I became aware of this from the very start - the response would sorta skip from a word or two to another while skipping the sense and context of what the argument actually was. It's why Bible apologists sometimes seem to lose track of the actual argument. Not all. Some are well able to stick to the point, but you ain't one of 'em. :)
Difficult to stick to the point, if the point is founded on wrong premises and is a straw-man argument.

I think you have misunderstood the meaning of works, or faith. Person does not become righteous by works, or faith. Person will be loyal/faithful and have right works, if he is righteous. Righteousness comes visible in actions. But actions are only like a fruit of a tree, it tells what kind of tree it is.

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #48

Post by 1213 »

Clownboat wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:07 pm It's the prayer that churches use, usually via an alter call or street evangelizing where they gain new members by getting them to pray to a god and commit their life to it in hopes of gaining eternal life in a heaven after they have died.
In nutshell, you are accepting the idea that you are sick and that a god concept is the medicine for this sickness you have been informed you suffer from. The trick is getting people to believe they are sick in the first place. That is why religious parents tell their children at a very young age that they suffer from this sickness. It is not impossible, but certainly harder to do to adults. It explains why we have religion due to geography on this planet as well.
Perhaps it would be best to remain in teachings of the Bible, if one is truly a christian (disciple of Jesus).

But, the idea of sickness. By what the Bible tells, lying, stealing... ...are wrong things. If adult has done so, I think he could as well be sorry and ask forgiveness.

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #49

Post by boatsnguitars »

What's the data on prayer?

One of the most well-known studies on intercessory prayer was the STEP (Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer) trial conducted by the Harvard Medical School in 2006. The study involved 1,802 patients who had undergone coronary bypass surgery and were randomly assigned to receive intercessory prayer or no prayer. The results showed that there was no significant difference in the recovery rates or complication rates between the two groups (Benson et al., 2006).

Another study conducted by the Templeton Foundation in 2006 examined the effects of intercessory prayer on patients with advanced heart disease. The study involved 1,802 patients who were divided into three groups: those who received intercessory prayer, those who received only standard medical care, and those who received standard medical care and were told they may or may not receive intercessory prayer. The results showed no significant difference in the recovery rates or mortality rates between the three groups (Hodge, 2006).

These studies suggest that there is little scientific evidence to support the claim that intercessory prayer has a direct effect on healing. While some people may experience positive outcomes after praying, it is important to remember that correlation does not necessarily imply causation. In many cases, the healing may be due to natural processes or other factors that are not related to prayer.

Moreover, relying solely on anecdotal stories can lead to a confirmation bias, where people only seek out information that confirms their preexisting beliefs. This can lead to a distorted view of reality and a failure to consider other perspectives or evidence that may contradict their beliefs.

You'll always get religious fanatics claiming prayer works. Just like you'll always get Republicans claiming Trump is great. It's not based on facts, but emotion.

Anyone who claims prayer works is a liar or idiot.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: Does Intercessory Prayer Work?

Post #50

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am
Clownboat wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 1:07 pm It's the prayer that churches use, usually via an alter call or street evangelizing where they gain new members by getting them to pray to a god and commit their life to it in hopes of gaining eternal life in a heaven after they have died.
In nutshell, you are accepting the idea that you are sick and that a god concept is the medicine for this sickness you have been informed you suffer from. The trick is getting people to believe they are sick in the first place. That is why religious parents tell their children at a very young age that they suffer from this sickness. It is not impossible, but certainly harder to do to adults. It explains why we have religion due to geography on this planet as well.
Perhaps it would be best to remain in teachings of the Bible, if one is truly a christian (disciple of Jesus).
But, the idea of sickness. By what the Bible tells, lying, stealing... ...are wrong things. If adult has done so, I think he could as well be sorry and ask forgiveness.
You asked what the prayer of salvation was. I informed you.
Your response indicates a lack of comprehension. I don't have much confidence about your Bible comprehension.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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