Jacob took fresh-cut branches from trees and made white stripes on them by peeling the bark and exposing the white inner wood. Then he placed the peeled branches in all the watering troughs, so that they would be seen by the sheep when they came to drink. When the flocks came to drink and mated in front of the branches, they bore young [that were striped]. (Genesis 30:37-39)
Did God breathe this story into Moses’ ear as an example of genetics at work?
God Explained Genetics to Moses
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #11I feel confident this comment is not directed at me as I was quite clear in that the narritive ultimately attributes Jacobs success to divine intervention. That said, few people would know more about goat breeding than a goat herder and if anyone believes that basic animal husbandry was invented by someone on Twitter they might like a bridge in Brooklyn I hear is for sale.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:11 pm
The only mystery here is why people feel a need to defend 3000 year old goat herders on their grasp of science. ...
The account simply presents Jacob employing the methods he judged as most likeky to be profitable, whether based on his own aquired experience, supersition or (most likeky) a combination of both. That his livestock prospered was from the narritive down to divine intervention.
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #12Where in the narrative is it clear that divine intervention is involved? Is it because we now know that genetics doesn't work that way? It is clear to me that the procedure Jacob employed was the cause of the outcome as far as the author was concerned.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:44 pm I feel confident this comment is not directed at me as I was quite clear in that the narritive ultimately attributes Jacobs success to divine intervention.
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Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #13brunumb wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 7:51 pmWhere in the narrative is it clear that divine intervention is involved? ... It is clear to me that the procedure Jacob employed was the cause of the outcome as far as the author was concerned.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:44 pm I feel confident this comment is not directed at me as I was quite clear in that the narritive ultimately attributes Jacobs success to divine intervention.
GENESIS 31:
So God kept taking your father’s livestock away from him and giving it to me. 10 Once when the flock got into heat, I raised my eyes and saw in a dream that the he-goats mating with the flock were striped, speckled, and spotty.+ 11 Then the angel of the true God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob!’ to which I said, ‘Here I am.’ 12 And he continued, ‘Raise your eyes, please, and see that all the he-goats mating with the flock are striped, speckled, and spotty, for I have seen all that Laʹban is doing to you.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #14You must know as well as I do that writers of religious books know the way the world works well enough but that does not stop them writing about miracles, tall stories and unscientific claims.You should also learn if you don'tJehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:44 pmI feel confident this comment is not directed at me as I was quite clear in that the narritive ultimately attributes Jacobs success to divine intervention. That said, few people would know more about goat breeding than a goat herder and if anyone believes that basic animal husbandry was invented by someone on Twitter they might like a bridge in Brooklyn I hear is for sale.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:11 pm
The only mystery here is why people feel a need to defend 3000 year old goat herders on their grasp of science. ...
The account simply presents Jacob employing the methods he judged as most likeky to be profitable, whether based on his own aquired experience, supersition or (most likeky) a combination of both. That his livestock prospered was from the narritive down to divine intervention.
JW
know, that ancient goatherds may very well have known that breeding worked (though they have have selected as unthinkingly as nature does) but they did not know how and why it worked. If they had, they would not have written stories about colouring sheep by means of striped sticks.
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #15Bingo.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:53 am If they had, they would not have written stories about colouring sheep by means of striped sticks.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #16Because I think you spread false ideas.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:22 amWhy must you do this?...1213 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:42 amYou don't seem to understand the case. Seeing colored stuff was not the point, drinking water that had certain substances could have caused a difference, as the Biblical story suggests.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:55 amNo it isn't. I really isn't. Dna doesn't work that way. There is no mechanism that would cause it to happen. Stop pretending there might be, just because someone might believe it.
Just think about it. Is your childrens hair in the pattern of the wallpaper of the motel room you copulated in?
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #17They had to be striped so that color altering substance could dissolve into the drinking water and have the effect. Now, I don't know can it alter really the outlook of the offspring, but it would be interesting study. I believe it is possible, if done exactly the same way.
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #18But you have shown not to be able to grasp what is real and what isn't, so how do you know I am spreading false ideas?
Are you really suggesting that my claim that fur color isn't dependant on the striping on a stick is false? Based on what - besides the Bible - are you suggesting this?
Do you also believe the Flood? What other 'science' do you think is true in the Bible?
You can be mad at me for being anti-Christian, but I'd caution you not to lose your soul or sanity in arguing against facts and scientific data in favor of 3000 year old tales. I can't imagine God would want his followers to deny the very mechanisms of the Universe He created, just because some goat herder wrote a little story.
After all, don't you believe God created genetics? Why would you argue that gentics work as written in the Bible, and not written in Creation itself? Do you trust the Bible, or God's Creation? (Or do you not distinguish between the two?)
God literally made the world and genetics, but you are trusting the words of a man written in a book that has changed hands (men's hands), has been edited, translated, etc.. It's mind-boggling, but I am well aware of this phenomenon among bibliolators.
I think Christians would deny the existence of the Sun if it was written in the Bible. If you don't believe me, then explain how they deny the lack of evidence for the Global Flood, or deny Evolution, or the Age of the Earth? All of those things, your God - allegedly - created, but Christians deny God's own handiwork. It seems crazy to me. You might call it "Faith".
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #19Study some genetics and you will learn that it can't be done. It's just biblical fiction.1213 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:34 amThey had to be striped so that color altering substance could dissolve into the drinking water and have the effect. Now, I don't know can it alter really the outlook of the offspring, but it would be interesting study. I believe it is possible, if done exactly the same way.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: God Explained Genetics to Moses
Post #20It is. The 'net is replete with Apologetics arguments trying to get around this and they generally have to involve God doing a miracle. Gen 30 clearly has striped sticks put in the drinking troughs and that causes the offspring to be striped. The apologetics, apart from loose claims that some mysterious genetic trick was involved, need to say it was a miracle because they knew things don't happen like that. It is just like the sun standing still during a battle, day and night before the sun was made and indeed the Flood and Ark are all miracle -stories that wouldn't work even if they were miracles.brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:08 amStudy some genetics and you will learn that it can't be done. It's just biblical fiction.1213 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:34 amThey had to be striped so that color altering substance could dissolve into the drinking water and have the effect. Now, I don't know can it alter really the outlook of the offspring, but it would be interesting study. I believe it is possible, if done exactly the same way.