Should Christians judge?

[Wootah]

This is about how logically impossible I find it not to judge people. I have to use my judgment. I have to say, "That which they are doing is wrong," in order that I can choose not to do it.

And yet the Bible tells Christians not to judge people so if they actually follow that (I think it's impossible without cognitive dissonance) then they're not hating or -phobic of anyone.

They think the behaviour is wrong which probably should count, but due to some weasel definitionalism from the people defining the term homophobia, it doesn't. Not without that emotional charge, which Christian teachings prohibit. Due to the same admittedly ridiculous loophole, I can believe it's immoral to be Black or Asian and not be a racist unless I believe they're inferior.

Should Christians judge?

[1213]

This is about how logically impossible I find it not to judge people. I have to use my judgment. I have to say, "That which they are doing is wrong," in order that I can choose not to do it.

And yet the Bible tells Christians not to judge people so if they actually follow that (I think it's impossible without cognitive dissonance) then they're not hating or -phobic of anyone.

They think the behaviour is wrong which probably should count, but due to some weasel definitionalism from the people defining the term homophobia, it doesn't. Not without that emotional charge, which Christian teachings prohibit. Due to the same admittedly ridiculous loophole, I can believe it's immoral to be Black or Asian and not be a racist unless I believe they're inferior.

Should Christians judge?

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2

[TRANSPONDER]

It seems that we have three factors here, aside from the inbuilt hypocritical double standard where they are indeed told not to judge, but the whole NT has Jesus judging, lecturing and admonishing...well, sure it's ok for him...then in Acts his followers judging, lecturing and admonishing...well o.k they had the Holy Spirit. And what we get is judging, lecturing and admonishing by those who (I am quite convinced) beleive they have the Holy Spirit, too. So sure Christians should not judge, but they aren't Judging but, in their view, helping. Because Judgement is not what they are doing when they Know on Faith that they are right and everyone else (including other Christians, some of the time) is not.

I'll skip over whether the admonitions to not judge and to judge justly are in conflict or not, but get onto judging. We have to do it. That it, look at the data, evidence, claims and exhortations on offer and decide. Of course we have to do that, and to those who say that we don't need to do that but just follow the Bible or Jesus, we look at the different beliefs and doctrines and say 'when you all agree, get back to us".

[Wootah]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Jesus also says John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

So he does mean for us to judge but not hypocritically or sanctimoniously.

The classic line is 'judge not lest ye be judged'.

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

But verse 5 says

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

So .. actually, we are meant to judge, after we have brought some humility to the issue by examining ourselves. The judgement we will be judged by is when we say, 'Thank God I am not like them'.

[TRANSPONDER]

Who shall judge the Judgers? Who has the authority to correct anyone else, let alone judge them. Self examination (and I don't mean a show -trial) does seem necessary and frankly, "'No... I can just dismiss what the Bible says in favour of what I Interpret it to mean." should be the first thing to come under scrutiny.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1

I think it's supposed to be about judging the action and not the person.

If everyone said, "I can't condemn the wrong they're doing because I've done wrong myself," no wrong would ever be challenged.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Jesus also says John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

So he does mean for us to judge but not hypocritically or sanctimoniously.

The classic line is 'judge not lest ye be judged'.
...

I think you have a good point. It is not actually forbidden to judge. People can judge, but they should just remember, the way they judge, they also will be judged.

[theophile]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Jesus also says John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

So he does mean for us to judge but not hypocritically or sanctimoniously.

The classic line is 'judge not lest ye be judged'.
...

I think you have a good point. It is not actually forbidden to judge. People can judge, but they should just remember, the way they judge, they also will be judged.

I think that's right. If you judge someone (e.g., throw rocks at them for being an adulterer), then you better be ready to get a rock thrown at you for the same.

I don't think that's cognitive dissonance, hypocritical, or anything like that, but a good practical maxim to flush out such things.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1

I think it's supposed to be about judging the action and not the person.

If everyone said, "I can't condemn the wrong they're doing because I've done wrong myself," no wrong would ever be challenged.

So judging has to be done or nobody would be checked. But those who judge must remember, they are not perfect. I'm reminded of the Comfort gambit: 'Have you ever done wrong?' The idea, twisted though it is, is that we all do wrong and judging is for all, by all, with a view to reform. Which we all knew. It is not about revenge for not having joined the Party and not loving the Great Leader. That is not what Judging is about. It is of course a social and moral matter and to do with social morals and how to organise them and do a better job, frankly than evolution hath done, and never mind a god (name your own) doing a substandard job of it.

Which is why of course the discussion is as irrelevant as Evolution or first cause or indeed the Soul, morality or consciousness, because none of those tell you which god or religion it relates to. I know that each religion or denomination assumes that of course it's THEIR God and religion, but that is the actual debate, not first cause, NDE's or Genesis literalism.

"But, but, but...we were talking about scripture weren't we?" Yes, but that's why I am irreligious, because this is a matter of morals and ethics and has been hi -jacked by religion. Matthew or Luke may have some Good Things in the Bible about morals, ethics and social judgement of our fellows, but it has no authority, and is not Good advice just because it is in the Bible .Judge Justly, remove the timber beam of hypocrisy and double - standards and don't judge just by appearances are (it seems) good advice, if 'give no thought to tomorrow', give the mugger everything he wants and give all your money to the poor and evidently pray in secret and not in the middle of the playing field aren't taken as such good advice.

Judge Justly and don't go by first appearances, may be good advice on a holistic basis, but not Biblical, because the stuff in the Bible is the first thing that requires some serious judging. And of course this just judging isn't as easy as you think.

[JoeyKnothead]

Should Christians judge?

Not at the level of the Supreme Court, at least.