Other sheep - Little flock

[MissKate13]

What Scripture says the “other sheep” are the great crowd?

What Scripture says the “little flock” are the 144,000?

I can find no Scripture that says “great crowd of other sheep,” nor can I find a verse which says the “little flock of 144,000.

[2timothy316]

What Scripture says the “other sheep” are the great crowd?

What Scripture says the “little flock” are the 144,000?

I can find no Scripture that says “great crowd of other sheep,” nor can I find a verse which says the “little flock of 144,000.

It is deduced through reason by identifying the 144,000 and great crowd.

Jesus mentions only two groups (flocks) mentioned in John 10:16 and Luke 12:32. The other sheep and the little flock.
Later Jesus tells John In Revelations of only two groups too. Revelation 7:4 the 144,000 and 7:9 the great crowd. One group is numbered and the other can't be numbered.

So, when Jesus was talking about a little flock and other sheep he must have been speaking of the little flock (numbered 144,000) and the other sheep (great crowd). There is also a tie in that both the little flock (Luke 12:32) and the 144,000 are giving a kingdom to rule. (Rev 14:1) With the little flock identified who's left but the other sheep and the great crowd.

Otherwise who could the 144,000 and great crowd be? It only fits with the little flock and other sheep.

[JehovahsWitness]

In John 10:16 Jesus spoke of two groups of sheep both of which belong to him. Two groups or catagorizations of sheep. If we take the "sheep" to represent "followers" and Christian to mean "follower of Christ" then Jesus did indeed indicate there would be two groups of Christians*.

Interestingly, at the time of Jesus speaking, that 2nd group where not in evidence.. In other words the 2nd group would become manifeste some time in the future of Jesus speaking.

* NOTE We are not talking'of two "types of Christian" there is only one type of Christian but two groups in that some are inside the pen/fold and some are not. The only difference between the sheep seems to be their location. Class or "classification" is not to be confused with status, rank or value.




RELATED POSTS


Could the "other sheep" be gentiles ?
viewtopic.php?p=1119999#p1119999

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE OTHER SHEEP , THE GREAT CROWD and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE

[JehovahsWitness]

Are the "other sheep" "the great crowd"? Technology, no; the "Great crowd" are identified as survivors of "the great tribulation", the other sheep are any Christians (no matter when they lived in history) that do not entertain a heavenly hope (see below).

Why do Jehovahs Witnesses refer to "the great crowd of other sheep” ? They don't (or they shouldnt). They should refer to the “great crowd” of “other sheep” correctly placing "<---- quotation marks ----> " as in our publications to reflect scriptual reference (Revelation 7:4, 9; John 10:16).

The bible indicates that those selected by God to rule from heaven will all be raised to their heavenly post by the end of the tribulation. Thus all who survive (come out ) of the aforementioned Great Tribulation, will logically be able to be identifed by both "appellations".

FURTHER READING Technically speaking, is there a difference between the Biblical terms “other sheep” and “great crowd”?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995288

What Scripture says the “other sheep” are the great crowd? The deeper bible truths are not discernable from taking single scriptures out of the context of the entire bible message; that members of the "great crowd" will all be "other sheep" is can be understood by reasoning on every scripture in the bible.

[JehovahsWitness]

To understand who theses two groups of Christian "sheep" require a firm understanding of the entire bible, linking the bibles central theme of the destiny of humanity under the kingdom, with the main COVENANTS (the New Covenant, Covenant for a Kingdom as well as theAbrahamic covenant and others ...). Although this is far too advanced for most people I have met in my life, who have but an elementary (if that) understanding of what God's kingdom, is, I have LINKED BELOW to explainations which I hope will help introduce you to the basics.

RELATED POSTS

Does the bible support the idea of two different groups of Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1022933#p1022933

Do different hopes or destinies make different "types" of Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1005079#p1005079

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE LITTLE FLOCK , THE OTHER SHEEP and ... THE KINGDOM OF GOD

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus spoke to his loyal disciples of a "little flock". This (relatively) small group would, he indicated, receive from his Father "the kingdom". God's heavenly kingdom is in fact a Government located /situated /based in heaven, headed by Jesus and 144,000 co-rulers (compare Rev 20:6)

The heavenly invitation, formally made possible by the New Covenant and The Kingdom Covenant makes spirit anointed born again Christians, a small group or ..."little flock" (numerically few) distinguisable from a "great crowd" of Christians that would make themselves manifest many centuries in the future, as potential SUBJECTS of the kingdom.



FURTHER READING: Who goes to heaven?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/


RELATED POSTS

WHY does God call some to heavenly life from the earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p846997

Do ALL good people go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p878615

Why conclude the 144,000 are pictured in heaven when the verse does not explicitly state this to be the case?
viewtopic.php?p=1044585#p1044585

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , BORN AGAIN and ... THE 144, 000

[MissKate13]

What Scripture says the “other sheep” are the great crowd?

What Scripture says the “little flock” are the 144,000?

I can find no Scripture that says “great crowd of other sheep,” nor can I find a verse which says the “little flock of 144,000.

It is deduced through reason by identifying the 144,000 and great crowd.

Jesus mentions only two groups (flocks) mentioned in John 10:16 and Luke 12:32. The other sheep and the little flock.
Later Jesus tells John In Revelations of only two groups too. Revelation 7:4 the 144,000 and 7:9 the great crowd. One group is numbered and the other can't be numbered.

So, when Jesus was talking about a little flock and other sheep he must have been speaking of the little flock (numbered 144,000) and the other sheep (great crowd). There is also a tie in that both the little flock (Luke 12:32) and the 144,000 are giving a kingdom to rule. (Rev 14:1) With the little flock identified who's left but the other sheep and the great crowd.

Otherwise who could the 144,000 and great crowd be? It only fits with the little flock and other sheep.

You mean Watchtower reasoning! If you hadn’t heard it from them, you would never have drawn these conclusions on your own.

If you’d studied diligently for yourself, you would have concluded that the sheep of John 10:16 are Gentiles.

In John 10:16, Jesus refers to “this fold.” This fold is the Jews.

Jesus also said there will be ONE flock. The ONE FLOCK is universal body of Christ, His church. This is the mystery of Christ, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:2-6. Through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

When Jesus brought the Gentiles into the fold, they along with the Jews became ONE FLOCK under one shepherd, which is the Lord’s ONE TRUE CHURCH

Buy separating His followers into two classes, as Watchtower teaches, Jesus’ ONE FLOCK is no more. It becomes two flocks. There is zero support in the Scriptures for there being two classes of Christians.

I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd. (John 10:16)

[2timothy316]

What Scripture says the “other sheep” are the great crowd?

What Scripture says the “little flock” are the 144,000?

I can find no Scripture that says “great crowd of other sheep,” nor can I find a verse which says the “little flock of 144,000.

It is deduced through reason by identifying the 144,000 and great crowd.

Jesus mentions only two groups (flocks) mentioned in John 10:16 and Luke 12:32. The other sheep and the little flock.
Later Jesus tells John In Revelations of only two groups too. Revelation 7:4 the 144,000 and 7:9 the great crowd. One group is numbered and the other can't be numbered.

So, when Jesus was talking about a little flock and other sheep he must have been speaking of the little flock (numbered 144,000) and the other sheep (great crowd). There is also a tie in that both the little flock (Luke 12:32) and the 144,000 are giving a kingdom to rule. (Rev 14:1) With the little flock identified who's left but the other sheep and the great crowd.

Otherwise who could the 144,000 and great crowd be? It only fits with the little flock and other sheep.

You mean Watchtower reasoning! If you hadn’t heard it from them, you would never have drawn these conclusions on your own.

If you’d studied diligently for yourself, you would have concluded that the sheep of John 10:16 are Gentiles.

In John 10:16, Jesus refers to “this fold.” This fold is the Jews.

Jesus also said there will be ONE flock. The ONE FLOCK is universal body of Christ, His church. This is the mystery of Christ, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:2-6. Through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

When Jesus brought the Gentiles into the fold, they along with the Jews became ONE FLOCK under one shepherd, which is the Lord’s ONE TRUE CHURCH

Buy separating His followers into two classes, as Watchtower teaches, Jesus’ ONE FLOCK is no more. It becomes two flocks. There is zero support in the Scriptures for there being two classes of Christians.

I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd. (John 10:16)

And you learned your dogma from someone as well and you agreed to it. I don't care where you learned your dogma, it is sad that you have decided to make it your own without much examination.

I do study, everyday in fact and I listen to things that are harmonious with the whole Bible. What you present is a singular scripture out of context and then added the dogma you learned to it. But it isn't harmonious with the rest of the Bible.

Yes, there is one flock but in that one flock there are two types of groups. That is what the Bible says. I'd go into detail but you have said that you can't be bothered with reading for too long...which is odd because you'd have to read a LOT to study the Bible, so it would seem to me that you're starving yourself of a lot of information.

JW is giving you a treasure trove of information to bad you've already prejudged anything a Jehovah's Witness says without examining it further. However, perhaps someone else will be able to glean something from it.

[MissKate13]

[mAnd you learned your dogma from someone as well and you agreed to it. I don't care where you learned your dogma, it is sad that you have decided to make it your own without much examination.

We all learn from others, but like the Bereans, we are to examine the Scriptures daily to see whether what is being taught is true.

I do study, everyday in fact and I listen to things that are harmonious with the whole Bible. What you present is a singular scripture out of context and then added the dogma you learned to it. But it isn't harmonious with the rest of the Bible.

I don’t doubt you study every day, but I believe you do so through the lenses of Watchtower. I’ve read their literature and have seen how they manipulate and twist Scriptures to mean something they don’t say. They are famous for quoting bits and pieces from God’s word and other literature to prove their points.

When I study, and I do so daily, I have nothing but my Bible and the Holy Spirit giving me the understanding as I’ve prayed for it.

Yes, there is one flock but in that one flock there are two types of groups. That is what the Bible says. I'd go into detail but you have said that you can't be bothered with reading for too long...which is odd because you'd have to read a LOT to study the Bible, so it would seem to me that you're starving yourself of a lot of information.

No Scripture says there are two types of groups in the one flock. If you know of one, please post it.

JW is giving you a treasure trove of information to bad you've already prejudged anything a Jehovah's Witness says without examining it further. However, perhaps someone else will be able to glean something from it.

JW has given me Watchtower dogma, which is subject to change just as much of their other dogma has changed over the years. Who can trust it is beyond me. I prefer the word of God and the word of God only. His word never changes, and He gave each of us the ability to read and understand so that we recognize false teaching when it comes our way.

[2timothy316]

[mAnd you learned your dogma from someone as well and you agreed to it. I don't care where you learned your dogma, it is sad that you have decided to make it your own without much examination.

We all learn from others, but like the Bereans, we are to examine the Scriptures daily to see whether what is being taught is true.

I do study, everyday in fact and I listen to things that are harmonious with the whole Bible. What you present is a singular scripture out of context and then added the dogma you learned to it. But it isn't harmonious with the rest of the Bible.

I don’t doubt you study every day, but I believe you do so through the lenses of Watchtower. I’ve read their literature and have seen how they manipulate and twist Scriptures to mean something they don’t say. They are famous for quoting bits and pieces from God’s word and other literature to prove their points.

When I study, and I do so daily, I have nothing but my Bible and the Holy Spirit giving me the understanding as I’ve prayed for it.

Yes, there is one flock but in that one flock there are two types of groups. That is what the Bible says. I'd go into detail but you have said that you can't be bothered with reading for too long...which is odd because you'd have to read a LOT to study the Bible, so it would seem to me that you're starving yourself of a lot of information.

No Scripture says there are two types of groups in the one flock. If you know of one, please post it.

JW is giving you a treasure trove of information to bad you've already prejudged anything a Jehovah's Witness says without examining it further. However, perhaps someone else will be able to glean something from it.

JW has given me Watchtower dogma, which is subject to change just as much of their other dogma has changed over the years. Who can trust it is beyond me. I prefer the word of God and the word of God only. His word never changes, and He gave each of us the ability to read and understand so that we recognize false teaching when it comes our way.

Again, you prejudge us but we are used to it. Did you have anything to add to the actual debate or are you just going to prejudge JW and bash the WTS? Attacking the person as untrustworthy rather than addressing the message is a weak debate tactic.