As the title suggests, did Jesus even care if he left behind sufficient evidence for his risen self?
Seems as though we have a potential 'dichotomy' going here.... (either/or)?
For Debate:
A) Was Jesus pleased with the evidence he left behind, as suitable for belief in him?
B) Or, did he maybe instead want to leave the evidence lacking, sketchy, and/or easily dismissible/debatable, in favor of faith?
c) Third, fourth, fifth options are welcome?
Please explain your rationale. Thank you!
Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
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Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #21How do you know they are his words? He spoke Aramaic, and none of the early accounts are in Aramaic, proving that it was a oral legend long before it was written down.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #22So, you think it means nothing that Bible promises eternal life only for righteous? Why so? If you think it is just my interpretation, what do you think these actually mean, and why so?
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
In a free world, anything is open for a debate.
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #23My last response was to demonstrate that you make interpretations of the Bible. Case and point, you seem pretty adamant about Jesus-God's intent about certain things. But when I ask you an easy question, you are not quite sure?1213 wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 5:39 am So, you think it means nothing that Bible promises eternal life only for righteous? Why so? If you think it is just my interpretation, what do you think these actually mean, and why so?
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
A) Does Jesus feel he left plenty of evidence, and the ones that do not still believe are either lying, dumb, or being blocked by evil? Or...
B) Jesus prefers people come to him by faith, so the evidence is purposefully lacking?
In the case for Christianity, I do not believe there exists a 3rd option. Either he leaves enough evidence, or he does not.
Before you answer, I also responded to a comment you made in post #19. You stated "you have to ask that directly from him, how does he feel.". This comment implies you believe we can ask Jesus questions, and he may answer. Well, Jesus does not appear to speak to me. Thus, I ask you.
Please ask Jesus-God if the above answer is A) or B), and then let us know? And once you respond, then maybe we can have a real dialogue.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #24If Jesus would think more evidence would be necessary, I believe he would give it.
Sorry, you have to wait, I believe you will get the answer later.
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #25That is a terrible answer. It is essentially, you have to believe with what we have. Which plainly is not at all good enough or there would be no doubt. The actual answer is either God (essentially) is willing to let Faith depend on unreliable basics like interpreting the Bible and personal revelations (which give conflicting religion, never mind conflicting Dogma) or God is incompetent. Or I would preferably opt for, isn't there at all. That would explain everything (well.. ...a lot) without having to present such terribly poor excuses.
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #26"I believe..."
Really? And that means what to us? Because, I have to be honest, your judgement seems unreliable and without any justification for your beliefs, we are simply replying to your beliefs - unmoored from any reasoning for them, which puts us in the uncomfortable position of making ad hom remarks, like, 'because of your inability to accept that J6 was an insurrection, not a tour, and your blanket acceptance of Tucker Carlson's slant, it appears you have no ability to make rational or wise decisions. Therefore, your beliefs are to be severely questioned since you are not a reliable 'witness'.
We've spent a lot of time on the value of a claim vs testimony, and how the person making the claim ought to be reliable, at least, and even then, it's not evidence.
So, I think you need to provide more substance to your claims of what you believe. We can all express our beliefs - that's easy - but this site isn't meant to be easy, it's meant to be a debate, therefore more rigor is required than any of us simply claiming "I believe".
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
- POI
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #27Okay, it reads like you are going with option A). And yet, many feel the evidence is lacking. Is this because:
a) these people are stupid?
b) these people are liars?
c) these people are being blocked by evil?
d) options a), and/or b), and/or c)?
e) the evidence IS lacking for justified belief, which is why the Bible props up faith?
Please explain your answer.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #28Sorry, I don't know why some people feel evidence is lacking.POI wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 12:28 pm Okay, it reads like you are going with option A). And yet, many feel the evidence is lacking. Is this because:
a) these people are stupid?
b) these people are liars?
c) these people are being blocked by evil?
d) options a), and/or b), and/or c)?
e) the evidence IS lacking for justified belief, which is why the Bible props up faith?
Please explain your answer.
What evidence would you need and do you think it would make you righteous?
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #29The video evidence of the event shows it was not really an insurrection. And it actually has nothing to do with Carlson, he didn't make the surveillance videos, only published them.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:09 am ...'because of your inability to accept that J6 was an insurrection, not a tour, and your blanket acceptance of Tucker Carlson's slant...
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Re: Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?
Post #30So you acknowledge that some do not feel there exists enough evidence. Interesting. Why Is Jesus okay with this? If he is not okay with this, and wants to convey his evidence so that it is clear to all, then why doesn't he?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."