Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

[POI]

As the title suggests, did Jesus even care if he left behind sufficient evidence for his risen self?

Seems as though we have a potential 'dichotomy' going here.... (either/or)?

For Debate:

A) Was Jesus pleased with the evidence he left behind, as suitable for belief in him?
B) Or, did he maybe instead want to leave the evidence lacking, sketchy, and/or easily dismissible/debatable, in favor of faith?
c) Third, fourth, fifth options are welcome?

Please explain your rationale. Thank you!

[POI]

Sorry, I don't know why some people feel evidence is lacking.

So you acknowledge that some do not feel there exists enough evidence. Interesting. Why Is Jesus okay with this? ...

Maybe the reason is:

“He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’”
Luke 16:30-31

Whoa, but there are people who are Chrisitan solely because they believe in the Rez, and they reject the OT, and the claims of Moses.

So, you really can't win with this one.

Apparently so.... They are sometimes called 'minimal facts' Christians.

[boatsnguitars]

Apparently so.... They are sometimes called 'minimal facts' Christians.

Isn't that redundant?

[Eloi]

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

[JoeyKnothead]

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

Gotta respect an effort to educate.

(As I note we have means to confirm he could even speak.)

[TRANSPONDER]

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

Assuming FSOA that Jesus even said it (He didn't, I would bet my pension) that is an instruction to make converts; it is not providing evidence of anything other than it contradicts Luke.

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

Gotta respect an effort to educate.

(As I note we have means to confirm he could even speak.)

True, nevertheless, even in old Greek, ἐλλήvikή still means garbage.

I have never been impressed by those with fringed beards, displaying their expertise in old languages, who make a display of their expertise in public places. Sure, I can understand wanting to read the Bible in the original or we may get into translation -shopping, but the case depends on obvious situations even in the kjv. and does not usiually (1) , hinge on the exact nuance in koine Greek. After all, the synoptics saying the angel gave a message at the tomb and John not having one there does not depend in slightest upon what 'angel translated at in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic.

(1) cor..I can remember a debate with my opponent pal on the former board over Ezekiel's Temple sanctuary gate (can't remember what) but for his one version, I produced a dozen that said the other thing.

[JoeyKnothead]

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

Assuming FSOA that Jesus even said it (He didn't, I would bet my pension) that is an instruction to make converts; it is not providing evidence of anything other than it contradicts Luke.

Did Jesus Care About Leaving Evidence?

YES, he did:

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

2 Pet. 3:2 (...) you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.

PS: Greek ἐντολή means commandment, order (or instruction).

Gotta respect an effort to educate.

(As I note we have means to confirm he could even speak.)

True, nevertheless, even in old Greek, ἐλλήvikή still means garbage.

I have never been impressed by those with fringed beards, displaying their expertise in old languages, who make a display of their expertise in public places. Sure, I can understand wanting to read the Bible in the original or we may get into translation -shopping, but the case depends on obvious situations even in the kjv. and does not usiually (1) , hinge on the exact nuance in koine Greek. After all, the synoptics saying the angel gave a message at the tomb and John not having one there does not depend in slightest upon what 'angel translated at in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic.

(1) cor..I can remember a debate with my opponent pal on the former board over Ezekiel's Temple sanctuary gate (can't remember what) but for his one version, I produced a dozen that said the other thing.

You don't miss a thing, do you?

Still, I'll give the props for the effort, and now you for yours.

[POI]

Apparently so.... They are sometimes called 'minimal facts' Christians.

Isn't that redundant?

LOL!

[1213]

Post 39. 1) Either Luke's words are all true and Mark's are not, or 2) Lukes are a lie, or 3) maybe a little of both?

I'd say option 3). How about you?

I think they are both true, if understood correctly.

1) Does evil have free will? In your worldview, assuming evil does have some or complete free wll, then why can't the devil/demons/other mimic the god he knows you already believe in. Which in reality, maybe does not exist? And if evil does not have free will, then why in the heck does your god allow all sorts and types of evil anyways?

2) If some of us are not convincible, God would already know this. Why then create the standard for heaven based upon belief/faith? Or, is this when 'works' instead maybe can be enough? Maybe enough worldly deeds will seal the deal for one's selection for Heaven?

1) I believe evil persons have free will. Probably they can't mimic God, because they are too evil and stupid. And I believe evil is allowed, because people wanted to know evil, that is why people were expelled to this Matrix, where we can learn to know evil.

2) The standard is, righteous into eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

[POI]

I think they are both true, if understood correctly.

How can both Mark and Luke all be true, if understood correctly? And what do you mean by correctly?

1) I believe evil persons have free will. Probably they can't mimic God, because they are too evil and stupid. And I believe evil is allowed, because people wanted to know evil, that is why people were expelled to this Matrix, where we can learn to know evil.

2) The standard is, righteous into eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

1) How would you know the intelligence level of a 'demon'? How do you even know Jesus was not some demon, to trick millions/billions into following a false prophet, to break the first Commandment. Heck, maybe the Orthodox Jews are right, in the sense that Jesus is NOT the one?

2) You are going to have to convince many Christians of YOUR standard. As many Christians think the standard is NOT what you think. In which they too can back up their rationale the same as you; simply by playing "Texas Sharp Shooter", and quoting Scripture:

"5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:5

Or how about:

"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" Eph. 2:8

So I ask again, since the standard is belief/faith, why create some individuals with the inability for belief?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Jesus is God, so he did exactly what he intended to do, which was die for men and set up the kingdom of heaven on earth, his living church. God doesn't intend to prove himself to the world. He wants our faith. He left enough evidence that one can start to study, to look at the minimal facts argument.

That will be enough to get someone to think more about it and hopefully to pray for God to help them believe if it is the truth.