Billions of Years to Form a Bond and a Relationship

[Skeptical]

I know that Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the only non-Trinitarians Christians out there, therefore, this thread is for Jehovah's Witnesses and any non-Trinitarians. However, I will use Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible and website as a reference for this thread.

Therefore, Matthew 20:28 says:

Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister+ and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

(Although I could have sworn that their Bible used to say a "corresponding ransom" at one time )

But anyway, I understand the whole concept of equal justice and exchanging the perfect human life of Jesus for the lost perfect life of Adam, however, I found a jw.org article titled A Corresponding Ransom for All (and with my luck, is probably outdated too ), which includes the ideas that:

4. Satan’s rebellion raised what issues?

4 God also had to settle other issues raised by Satan’s rebellion, issues of far greater significance than the human predicament. Satan cast a dark shadow across God’s good name by accusing Jehovah of being a liar and a cruel dictator who deprived his creatures of knowledge and freedom. (Genesis 3:1-5) Furthermore, by seemingly thwarting God’s purpose to fill the earth with righteous humans, Satan made God appear to be a failure. (Genesis 1:28; Isaiah 55:10, 11) Satan also emboldened himself to slander God’s loyal servants, charging that they served Him only out of selfish motives. If placed under pressure, boasted Satan, none of them would remain loyal to God!​—Job 1:9-11.

5. Why could God not ignore Satan’s challenges?

5 These challenges could not be ignored. If they were left unanswered, confidence in and support for God’s rulership would finally be eroded. (Proverbs 14:28) If law and order deteriorated, would havoc not reign throughout the universe? God thus owed it to himself and to his righteous ways to vindicate his sovereignty. He owed it to his faithful servants to allow them to demonstrate their unbreakable loyalty to him. This meant dealing with the plight of sinful humanity in a way that gave precedence to the paramount issues. He later told Israel: “I​—I am the One that is wiping out your transgressions for my own sake.”​—Isaiah 43:25.

Therefore, what I was wondering about was: When it came to the part concerning the match between the integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus, was it really an even exchange since Adam who lived for maybe a few months with a relationship with God (who really knows), while Jesus, before he became Jesus, lived with God and had a relationship with God and bonded with God for billions of years? Anyone have any thoughts?

[1213]

...When it came to the part concerning the match between the integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus, was it really an even exchange since Adam who lived for maybe a few months with a relationship with God (who really knows), while Jesus, before he became Jesus, lived with God and had a relationship with God and bonded with God for billions of years? Anyone have any thoughts?

My thought is, it would be best to remain in what the Bible says. The idea of "...integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus..." sounds something that is outside of Bible and not good.

[Skeptical]

...When it came to the part concerning the match between the integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus, was it really an even exchange since Adam who lived for maybe a few months with a relationship with God (who really knows), while Jesus, before he became Jesus, lived with God and had a relationship with God and bonded with God for billions of years? Anyone have any thoughts?

My thought is, it would be best to remain in what the Bible says. The idea of "...integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus..." sounds something that is outside of Bible and not good.

So, is there a better way to sum up point no. 4 and no. 5 from the jw.org article that I quoted?

[myth-one.com]

Therefore, what I was wondering about was: When it came to the part concerning the match between the integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus, was it really an even exchange since Adam who lived for maybe a few months with a relationship with God (who really knows), while Jesus, before he became Jesus, lived with God and had a relationship with God and bonded with God for billions of years? Anyone have any thoughts?

Welcome, Skeptical!

Your confusing Jesus with the Word. It's a very common error!

The Word is God.

Jesus was the Word made flesh as a man.

Your post states this correctly: "while Jesus, before he became Jesus."

Before Jesus became Jesus, there was no Jesus.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #1]
It's not the length of time that is important to the strength of relationships, but the quality. Adam did not appreciate all the good things given to him by Jehovah. He was perfect, yet chose to go against God and become independent of Him. Jesus did appreciate everything from Jehovah, and he proved that a perfect man could maintain integrity, though Adam eschewed it. The whole point is that Jesus loved God enough to suffer agony and death, though Adam did not love God enough to show Him his love by leaving the one tree alone. "Just as through the disobedience of the one man [Adam] many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one person [Jesus] many will be constituted righteous." (Romans 5:19) That's the bottom line....who showed obedience and integrity? It didn't matter how long the relationship was for. BTW, Adam undoubtedly was alive for many years even before Eve came on the scene. Not billions of years, but enough to show what he really thought about the law-giving heavenly Father.

[JehovahsWitness]

...I could have sworn that their Bible used to say a "corresponding ransom" at one time...with my luck, is probably outdated too

What do you mean "at one time" ...If you don'tmind le asking ...are you an ex-Witness or a disfellowshipped person? I ask because you indicate you are familiar with our literature / translations from the past.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[JehovahsWitness]

My thought is, it would be best to remain in what the Bible says. The idea of "...integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus..." sounds something that is outside of Bible and not good.

Are you suggesting the word and/ or the notion of "integrity" is non-biblical?

Or are you suggesting that the bible does not link Adam (and his actions in Eden) with Jesus and his sacrifice?

Are you suggesting that the question of obedience was not central to the events in Eden ?


I'm struggling to see what exactly is "outside of Bible " in any of the above.

[Purple Knight]

As far as sacrifices and exchanges are concerned, is there anything that says that the payer can't overpay?

If God wants a snow-white lamb and you offer two of them, is that wrong? Have you done anyone a disservice? Has anyone been offended? Has anyone even been upset?

We may not be able to "make change" so to speak, and for example, if we only have a conjoined lamb we must sacrifice the whole thing or nothing. But for all we know, the universe could easily be set up to make proper change if we overpay. It just can't remedy the situation if we decide to be stingy and keep the conjoined lamb, since that's a matter of free will.

[1213]

My thought is, it would be best to remain in what the Bible says. The idea of "...integrity between the perfect man Adam and the perfect man Jesus..." sounds something that is outside of Bible and not good.

Are you suggesting the word and/ or the notion of "integrity" is non-biblical?

Or are you suggesting that the bible does not link Adam (and his actions in Eden) with Jesus and his sacrifice?

...

Yes, Bible links Adam and Eve, by showing that by Adam we were expelled from God and by Jesus we have opportunity to come back to God. But, it does not mean they were both perfect, or that both of them had to be perfect.

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, Bible links Adam and Eve, by showing that by Adam we were expelled from God and by Jesus we have opportunity to come back to God. But, it does not mean they were both perfect, or that both of them had to be perfect.

We believe that Adam and Eve were indeed created perfect since they were created by God who does nothing that is short of perfection (see Deut 32:4)



JW