A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

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A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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I came across the following piece in Wikipedia some time ago, and recently remembered how priceless it was and thought I'd share.

"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. Watch Tower Society publications have made, and continue to make, predictions about world events they believe were prophesied in the Bible.[1] Some of those early predictions were described as "established truth",[2] and beyond any doubt.[3] Witnesses are told to "be complete in accepting the visible organization's direction in every aspect" and that there is no need to question what God tells them through his Word and organization since love "believes all things".[4][5][6] If a member advocates views different from what appears in print, they face expulsion.[7][8][9]

Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some teachings. The Society's publications have at times suggested that members had previously "read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended"[10] or that the beliefs of members were "based on wrong premises".[11] According to Professor Edmond Gruss, other failed predictions were ignored, and replaced with new predictions; for example, in the book, The Finished Mystery (1917), events were applied to the years 1918 to 1925 that earlier had been held to occur prior to 1914. When the new interpretations also did not transpire, the 1926 edition of the book changed the statements and removed the dates.[12]


Predictions (by date of publication) include:

1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men".[29]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions". Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy". The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us".[38]
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century.... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that".[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45][46]
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "[s]hortly, within our twentieth century".[47]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service".[48]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[49]
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[50] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".


It should be noted that on average a new prediction was coming out about every 5 1/2 years, but since 1989, 34 years ago, nada. Can we assume the JW prediction business has since shut down?


QUESTIONS:
1. Should continuing blunders such as these have any bearing on the credibility of a religion? Any religion?
2. What do you think it says about the Jehovah's Witnesses religion?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #11

Post by boatsnguitars »

Yeah, Miles, not false.

Feel free to yell "Fire" in a theater... it won't be false, just early! It's bound to happen at some point in the next few thousand years...
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #12

Post by 2timothy316 »

I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before. Most people have no idea why a Jehovah's Witness is a Jehovah's Witness. The answer is simple,the reason a JW is a JW is in the name of the religion. We are not Witness Witnesses. Following the creature, who is flawed, is not why we stay a Jehovah's Witness. John 14:31 and Matthew 22:37 is why Jehovah's Witnesses are who they are. Jesus was part of a nation religion that was completely flawed and even corrupt. But that didn't stop him from following the laws of his Father Jehovah. His love of his Father is what kept him doing what he was doing. He found the good in people and those good people that wanted to love God stuck with him.

Love of God will keep a JW where they are and not the love or the flaws of the people in it. Who would want people that can't tolerate mistakes in their religion anyway? So, if a person can't handle people making mistakes and what to harp on peoples mistakes then by all means bypass Jehovah's Witnesses as your choice in religion. Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed. There are those that think of themselves as Mary Poppins, perfect in every way. Must be nice. I see humility as a strength not a weakness and I see those that have to harp on people's mistakes to cut them down as weak. One that cuts another down doesn't make that one taller.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #13

Post by boatsnguitars »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:04 am I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before. Most people have no idea why a Jehovah's Witness is a Jehovah's Witness. The answer is simple,the reason a JW is a JW is in the name of the religion. We are not Witness Witnesses. Following the creature, who is flawed, is not why we stay a Jehovah's Witness. John 14:31 and Matthew 22:37 is why Jehovah's Witnesses are who they are. Jesus was part of a nation religion that was completely flawed and even corrupt. But that didn't stop him from following the laws of his Father Jehovah. His love of his Father is what kept him doing what he was doing. He found the good in people and those good people that wanted to love God stuck with him.

Love of God will keep a JW where they are and not the love or the flaws of the people in it. Who would want people that can't tolerate mistakes in their religion anyway? So, if a person can't handle people making mistakes and what to harp on peoples mistakes then by all means bypass Jehovah's Witnesses as your choice in religion. Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed. There are those that think of themselves as Mary Poppins, perfect in every way. Must be nice. I see humility as a strength not a weakness and I see those that have to harp on people's mistakes to cut them down as weak. One that cuts another down doesn't make that one taller.
Total whitewash. Atheists don't think they're Mary Poppins, and the issue isn't that people are occasionally wrong. The issue is that they are factually incorrect, while claiming they are the ones who recognize the truth - and then scare children, and dim people, with their threats of "The End Is Nigh!" (While happily raking in donations from pensioners)

Worse are other Christians who "oops, silly me!" get it wrong that gay people ought to be mercilessly attacked or even killed, or gay people shouldn't be able to adopt children, or have visitation rights in a hospital - all because, "aw shucks, I'm just a human being and I make mistakes".

At some point Christians have to own up to the thousands of years of abuse and violence they continue to unleash on the world because, "Gee, I guess I was a little off in my exegesis - seems I shouldn't have told my kid that he was going to Hell for wanting to be Trans and went and killed himself... silly, sinning me!"
Last edited by boatsnguitars on Fri May 19, 2023 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #14

Post by 2timothy316 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:40 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:04 am I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before. Most people have no idea why a Jehovah's Witness is a Jehovah's Witness. The answer is simple,the reason a JW is a JW is in the name of the religion. We are not Witness Witnesses. Following the creature, who is flawed, is not why we stay a Jehovah's Witness. John 14:31 and Matthew 22:37 is why Jehovah's Witnesses are who they are. Jesus was part of a nation religion that was completely flawed and even corrupt. But that didn't stop him from following the laws of his Father Jehovah. His love of his Father is what kept him doing what he was doing. He found the good in people and those good people that wanted to love God stuck with him.

Love of God will keep a JW where they are and not the love or the flaws of the people in it. Who would want people that can't tolerate mistakes in their religion anyway? So, if a person can't handle people making mistakes and what to harp on peoples mistakes then by all means bypass Jehovah's Witnesses as your choice in religion. Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed. There are those that think of themselves as Mary Poppins, perfect in every way. Must be nice. I see humility as a strength not a weakness and I see those that have to harp on people's mistakes to cut them down as weak. One that cuts another down doesn't make that one taller.
Total whitewash. Atheists don't think they're Mary Poppins, and the issue isn't that people are occasionally wrong. The issue is that they are factually incorrect, while claiming they are the ones who recognize the truth - and then scare children, and dim people, with their threats of "The End Is Nigh!" (While happily raking in donations from pensioners)

Worse are other Christians who "oops, silly me!" get it wrong that gay people ought to be mercilessly attacked or even killed, or gay people shouldn't be able to adopt children, or have visitation rights in a hospital - all because, "aw sucks, I'm just a human being and I make mistakes".

At some point Christians have to own up to the thousands of years of abuse and violence they continue to unleash on the world because, "Gee, I guess I was a little off in my exegesis - seems I shouldn't have told my kid that he was going to Hell for wanting to be Trans and went and killed himself... silly, sinning me!"
Your opinion is noted but off topic.
Jehovah's Witness don't attack or kill gay people. We don't go to war in any country. We don't vote or get involved with politics. So we don't even vote for or against gay people or for war. The worst thing that is true, is we were wrong about the date end of this system of things. Which we learned our lesson. But this is what people keep harping on because they must be perfect because why keep pointing at faults that one doesn't do anymore. Is that what atheists do? Just keep bringing up a person's faults over and over. Do they do that with themselves? If so, that is really sad. If one thinks that an atheist can't scare children and threaten people then allow me to introduce you to Kim Jong Un. He thinks he is perfect too. He calls himself the "Supreme Leader". Are atheist the supreme group in the world that make no mistakes?

Or do you think its not fair that I compare all atheists to one persons actions?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #15

Post by boatsnguitars »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 1:13 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:40 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:04 am I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before. Most people have no idea why a Jehovah's Witness is a Jehovah's Witness. The answer is simple,the reason a JW is a JW is in the name of the religion. We are not Witness Witnesses. Following the creature, who is flawed, is not why we stay a Jehovah's Witness. John 14:31 and Matthew 22:37 is why Jehovah's Witnesses are who they are. Jesus was part of a nation religion that was completely flawed and even corrupt. But that didn't stop him from following the laws of his Father Jehovah. His love of his Father is what kept him doing what he was doing. He found the good in people and those good people that wanted to love God stuck with him.

Love of God will keep a JW where they are and not the love or the flaws of the people in it. Who would want people that can't tolerate mistakes in their religion anyway? So, if a person can't handle people making mistakes and what to harp on peoples mistakes then by all means bypass Jehovah's Witnesses as your choice in religion. Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed. There are those that think of themselves as Mary Poppins, perfect in every way. Must be nice. I see humility as a strength not a weakness and I see those that have to harp on people's mistakes to cut them down as weak. One that cuts another down doesn't make that one taller.
Total whitewash. Atheists don't think they're Mary Poppins, and the issue isn't that people are occasionally wrong. The issue is that they are factually incorrect, while claiming they are the ones who recognize the truth - and then scare children, and dim people, with their threats of "The End Is Nigh!" (While happily raking in donations from pensioners)

Worse are other Christians who "oops, silly me!" get it wrong that gay people ought to be mercilessly attacked or even killed, or gay people shouldn't be able to adopt children, or have visitation rights in a hospital - all because, "aw sucks, I'm just a human being and I make mistakes".

At some point Christians have to own up to the thousands of years of abuse and violence they continue to unleash on the world because, "Gee, I guess I was a little off in my exegesis - seems I shouldn't have told my kid that he was going to Hell for wanting to be Trans and went and killed himself... silly, sinning me!"
Your opinion is noted but off topic.
Jehovah's Witness don't attack or kill gay people. We don't go to war in any country. We don't vote or get involved with politics. So we don't even vote for or against gay people or for war. The worst thing that is true, is we were wrong about the date end of this system of things. Which we learned our lesson. But this is what people keep harping on because they must be perfect because why keep pointing at faults that one doesn't do anymore. Is that what atheists do? Just keep bringing up a person's faults over and over. Do that do that with themselves? If so, that is really sad. If one thinks that an atheist can't scare children and threaten people then allow me to introduce you to Kim Jong Un.
I said "Worse are other Christians..."

but I note you didn't defend the scaring of children and dim people, and the scamming of pensioners.

Just face it. JW's aren't special. They don't have any unique access to the truth. They are just, yet another, religion. They know this, and that makes them morally wrong to claim the things they claim.

Religious people just need to learn their place in the long history of humanity: They've been wrong.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #16

Post by 2timothy316 »

boatsnguitars wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 1:31 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 1:13 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 12:40 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:04 am I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before. Most people have no idea why a Jehovah's Witness is a Jehovah's Witness. The answer is simple,the reason a JW is a JW is in the name of the religion. We are not Witness Witnesses. Following the creature, who is flawed, is not why we stay a Jehovah's Witness. John 14:31 and Matthew 22:37 is why Jehovah's Witnesses are who they are. Jesus was part of a nation religion that was completely flawed and even corrupt. But that didn't stop him from following the laws of his Father Jehovah. His love of his Father is what kept him doing what he was doing. He found the good in people and those good people that wanted to love God stuck with him.

Love of God will keep a JW where they are and not the love or the flaws of the people in it. Who would want people that can't tolerate mistakes in their religion anyway? So, if a person can't handle people making mistakes and what to harp on peoples mistakes then by all means bypass Jehovah's Witnesses as your choice in religion. Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed. There are those that think of themselves as Mary Poppins, perfect in every way. Must be nice. I see humility as a strength not a weakness and I see those that have to harp on people's mistakes to cut them down as weak. One that cuts another down doesn't make that one taller.
Total whitewash. Atheists don't think they're Mary Poppins, and the issue isn't that people are occasionally wrong. The issue is that they are factually incorrect, while claiming they are the ones who recognize the truth - and then scare children, and dim people, with their threats of "The End Is Nigh!" (While happily raking in donations from pensioners)

Worse are other Christians who "oops, silly me!" get it wrong that gay people ought to be mercilessly attacked or even killed, or gay people shouldn't be able to adopt children, or have visitation rights in a hospital - all because, "aw sucks, I'm just a human being and I make mistakes".

At some point Christians have to own up to the thousands of years of abuse and violence they continue to unleash on the world because, "Gee, I guess I was a little off in my exegesis - seems I shouldn't have told my kid that he was going to Hell for wanting to be Trans and went and killed himself... silly, sinning me!"
Your opinion is noted but off topic.
Jehovah's Witness don't attack or kill gay people. We don't go to war in any country. We don't vote or get involved with politics. So we don't even vote for or against gay people or for war. The worst thing that is true, is we were wrong about the date end of this system of things. Which we learned our lesson. But this is what people keep harping on because they must be perfect because why keep pointing at faults that one doesn't do anymore. Is that what atheists do? Just keep bringing up a person's faults over and over. Do that do that with themselves? If so, that is really sad. If one thinks that an atheist can't scare children and threaten people then allow me to introduce you to Kim Jong Un.
I said "Worse are other Christians..."

but I note you didn't defend the scaring of children and dim people, and the scamming of pensioners.

Just face it. JW's aren't special. They don't have any unique access to the truth. They are just, yet another, religion. They know this, and that makes them morally wrong to claim the things they claim.

Religious people just need to learn their place in the long history of humanity: They've been wrong.
Again your opinion and hubris has been noted.
But don't think that atheists are special either, that they are perfect, never scare children and dim people, scam people and are never wrong. People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
Do Jehovah's Witness should not seek to scare children or call people dim or scam anyone. Donations are completely optional and no plates are passed around at our meetings. They don't even guilt trip people into giving money. We teach that God loves a cheerful giver and if one can't give cheerfully then don't give at all. (2 Cor 9:7)

That being said can these things happen in the JW religion? Yes! But this is from human failures not from God's teachings. This is why it is important to follow and worship not the creature but the Creator. For a person to contently bash us as whole for human failures, does this mean they view themselves as perfect and feel they have done nothing wrong their entire life? Do they focus on the bad in a person/people and ignore the good? Yet only see the good in themselves? Does such a person think they have unique access to the truth?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #17

Post by Purple Knight »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 1:47 pm But don't think that atheists are special either, that they are perfect, never scare children and dim people, scam people and are never wrong.
99% agree. There's a huge potential to harm with atheism, and that rests on the idea that a lot of people in the world are very nasty at heart and will go out and do wrong and hurt people if they don't think they're going to be punished for it. Thus, an atheist country must be more lawful than a religious one, stepping in and filling that gap with real punishment for real wrongdoing. It can't, to the same degree, rely on people to be good, out of the goodness of their hearts.

Atheists don't have the same incentive not to scam others and as they tend to be more intelligent, one can expect this problem to only get worse, and further compound because very smart people are often even better at justifying such things to themselves.

Are atheists immoral? Well, studies indicate no. But immoral people - who will always do wrong if they can get away with it - do no benefit to the world by being freed from their constraining religion. This is how atheism may be harming the world. For every honest person who realises that religion is probably not true and becomes an open atheist, imagine how many there are that quietly stop believing, start exploiting their own flock (who they now consider stupid sheeple there to be preyed upon by smart wolves) and use religion as a cover for all their deeds.

However, the one thing you won't get, or at least shouldn't, is atheists moralistically guilt-tripping people into funding atheism. You can argue that there are stand-ins in modern culture, and people do argue with moral certainty for things like PC culture while being atheist, but they really shouldn't have that leg to stand on, and people need to call them on that. Without an absolute moral authority - without the "God says" which they do not have, they should not have the moral authority over anyone that they claim to have. Without moral authority, it ought to be all debate, and no proselytizing/castigation/shaming. The world needs more people, atheists especially, to point out to fellow atheists that they categorically cannot be gods (because those don't exist) and thus cannot respond to moral counterclaims with mere jeering and shaming. They must listen as moral equals, because if not, then they do believe in some sort of religious moral authority.

I always talk about how I was right when I was a teenager in the 90's. But in this case I was wrong. I thought atheism would bring a better world. There are more atheists now, and it didn't. You get atheists doing the same moralizing and proselytizing that religious people used to do. I guess it turns out that world doesn't just slide into being and still has to be worked for. To buy that world, people with more courage than I have, need to stand up to these new age proselytizers and ask, "Who says?" until it becomes clear that they can't answer that question and must debate as moral equals.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #18

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #17]
The problem I see with OP like this one that is full of finger pointing and broad stroke accusations. As if the accuser is completely free of any wrong doing and has never said anything that was wrong. Folks that dig up a person's past mistakes and though they have changed their ways keeps throwing their past mistakes in their face is just.... Cruel? Unloving? Haughty? A person that does that to people, do they have good friends or are they nasty to them as well? Does the mask of the internet make it to were people such as Jehovah's Witnesses can be treated like less than human but expected to be better than human?

I personally don't see all atheist as a Kim Jong Un. Jehovah's Witnesses' belief is that everyone is judged individually not for the group they are in. (Romans 14:12) We are reminded that just because we are JWs we will not escape judgement. In fact JWs believe we will be the first to be judged. (1 Peter 4:17) So all this call for, 'you need to answer for this and for that'. Well, that is going to happen. But not just JWs are going to be judged.

I like the more 'atheist is the world doesn't make a better world' comment. Just like more members of the JW religion in the world wouldn't make a better world. What makes a better world is a better person. Start with one's self. I can call myself a JW but if I don't act in love as I'm commanded to do then I'm a nuisance. Do I follow this perfectly? Nope. But it is worth all effort to try. The world has seemed to have given up on trying. Instead we get threads like this one. Ready to pull up every past wrong and ready to dispense sentence and carry it out. Forget letting it go. Forget any good they have done. You know, most wars between countries are fought because of something that happened 100s of years ago. What is the point? Fortunately, it will not be those that create threads like this one that I or any one will have to answer to. For if mankind was to be the judge of mankind, who would live? No one.

I will say this. If any atheist on this entire forum was ever was to repent, come to love Jehovah God, I would not hold anything they said here against them. I'd never throw it back into their face. What is done is done and to bring up their past is just mean hearted. "And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:11. Never would I call one that God has declared righteous unclean due to their past that they have left behind.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #19

Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 9:04 am I always find it funny when I see posts like this. Like JWs have never seen this before.
'Twasn't posted for JWs. I'm quite sure they've all been schooled in it and told how to respond. It was posted to alert others to one of the more enduring and amusing failures of the religion.

Of course to an atheist, God is nonsense anyway, so they will be extra perplexed.
Not nonsense at all, just the object of an unsubstantiated claim. And no perplexity whatsoever. Most people well understand the frailty of the human character and its need for a savior to protect them from the supposed disastrous fate that awaits all but a chosen 144,000. A hundred thousand-plus who were chosen ages ago, leaving no room left in god's ark, I might add.

Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, who was standing on Mount Zion. There were 144,000 people with him. They all had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


Revelation 14:3
The people sang a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders. The only ones who could learn the new song were the 144,000 who had been bought from the earth. No one else could learn it.


Note the past tense. The train has been boarded and left the station.



.
Last edited by Miles on Fri May 19, 2023 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #20

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to Miles in post #19]
Thanks for proving my point.

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