A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

I came across the following piece in Wikipedia some time ago, and recently remembered how priceless it was and thought I'd share.

"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. Watch Tower Society publications have made, and continue to make, predictions about world events they believe were prophesied in the Bible.[1] Some of those early predictions were described as "established truth",[2] and beyond any doubt.[3] Witnesses are told to "be complete in accepting the visible organization's direction in every aspect" and that there is no need to question what God tells them through his Word and organization since love "believes all things".[4][5][6] If a member advocates views different from what appears in print, they face expulsion.[7][8][9]

Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some teachings. The Society's publications have at times suggested that members had previously "read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended"[10] or that the beliefs of members were "based on wrong premises".[11] According to Professor Edmond Gruss, other failed predictions were ignored, and replaced with new predictions; for example, in the book, The Finished Mystery (1917), events were applied to the years 1918 to 1925 that earlier had been held to occur prior to 1914. When the new interpretations also did not transpire, the 1926 edition of the book changed the statements and removed the dates.[12]


Predictions (by date of publication) include:

1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men".[29]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions". Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy". The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us".[38]
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century.... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that".[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45][46]
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "[s]hortly, within our twentieth century".[47]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service".[48]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[49]
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[50] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".


It should be noted that on average a new prediction was coming out about every 5 1/2 years, but since 1989, 34 years ago, nada. Can we assume the JW prediction business has since shut down?


QUESTIONS:
1. Should continuing blunders such as these have any bearing on the credibility of a religion? Any religion?
2. What do you think it says about the Jehovah's Witnesses religion?

.



.

Ross
Scholar
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #71

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
Did you read the links I posted earlier? is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about. Or at least you'd be asking me about what I posted....but you're not. You will keep posting in ignorance until you read the links I posted. I don't care about your post until you inform yourself. Stop the excuses and read or don't and stay in ignorance so that I can keep pointing it out. Or are you scared of what JWs publish? Scared of finding out that you're wrong? Is that why do you will not read the links I posted? If you don't respond to the info I pointed to then I have to accept you're scared.
I have just come back to this thread after work and read this again.

Is this really a post from a kind and loving Christian inviting one to find The Lord, or is this someone demanding they control me and insisting I do as they say?

This is really and honestly disturbing behaviour.

Ross
Scholar
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #72

Post by Ross »

Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:08 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about.
And where did you learn this grammar? It is not English.

Are you really a Jehovah's Witness?

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4220
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 179 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #73

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:08 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
Did you read the links I posted earlier? is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about. Or at least you'd be asking me about what I posted....but you're not. You will keep posting in ignorance until you read the links I posted. I don't care about your post until you inform yourself. Stop the excuses and read or don't and stay in ignorance so that I can keep pointing it out. Or are you scared of what JWs publish? Scared of finding out that you're wrong? Is that why do you will not read the links I posted? If you don't respond to the info I pointed to then I have to accept you're scared.
I have just come back to this thread after work and read this again.

Is this really a post from a kind and loving Christian inviting one to find The Lord, or is this someone demanding they control me and insisting I do as they say?

This is really and honestly disturbing behaviour.
Behaviour? Or do you mean behavior?

Yes, it is a kind and loving post. Haven't you read the scripture about discipline? Hebrews 12:11

I don't care if you do what I say. I have no control over your eternal future. You owe me nothing and I hold no sway over mankind's judge. Yet you seem to want to convince me of something...or are you trying to convince yourself? It seems you need someone to be wrong? I'm guessing this is why you came out of hiding to focus on this thread.

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4220
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 179 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #74

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:57 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
Ross wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:12 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:24 pm

Because of this personal policy you keep posting things in ignorance of what Jehovah Witnesses actually believe today compared to the cherry picked sentences from biased posters of what JWs used to believe a hundred years ago...It doesn't seem that you're worried about propaganda as you are swallowing other posters propaganda hook line and sinker.

This is terrible, and indecent spin, deviation from the discussion, and smoke and mirrors. Please allow me to clarify:

One of your colleagues stated that Jehovah's Witnesses or the WTS had NEVER claimed to be prophets.

I proved this to be completely false by quoting Watchtower articles from many time periods up to and including the 1970's. ( Hardly a hundred years ago.)

You now accuse me of cherry picking sentences from decades ago.

How do you perceive and understand the term 'NEVER'?
Did you read the links I posted earlier? If you did and understood them then you wouldn't be posting this. But is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about. Or at least you'd be asking me about what I posted....but you're not. You will keep posting in ignorance until you read the links I posted. And if you say, 'what links are you talking about', I will not post them again and do your work for you because you don't like to read for whatever excuse you give me. I don't care about your post until you inform yourself. Stop the excuses and read or don't and stay in ignorance so that I can keep pointing it out. Or are you scared of what JWs publish? Maybe that is it? Scared of finding out that you're wrong? Is that why do you will not read the links I posted? If you don't respond to the info I pointed to then I have to accept you're scared. I await your excuse to staying ignorant of what JWs actually believe today in 2023.
It is amusing to me that you think I am scared.

I browsed through your 'links' which contain pretty much exactly what I expected to see. And yes of course in 2023 and earlier, history has forced the movement ( WTS, Charles Taze Russell, Jehovah's visible organization on earth, remnant of anointed Jehovah's Witnesses, Governing Body, ( call it whatever you will )) to adjust it's views on it's previous claim to be the modern day prophet of God.

This does not though change the erroneous claim by one of your associates within this thread that the WTS never claimed to be prophets. You cant whitewash historical facts by providing propaganda spin in the form of Watchtower links.
Who said I was whitewashing anything? I'm going to give you a huge piece of wisdom...lets see what you do with it.

Psalm 130:3, "If errors were what you watch, O Jah, Then who, O Jehovah, could stand?"
Psalm 86: 5, “You, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive.”

Let's look at those scriptures in reverse.

'Errors are what you watch,'
'You are bad and are not ready to forgive'

I like to be known for following Godlike qualities. I know the hearts of my associates because we share the same hope. They strive to follow Godlike qualities as to I. If you don't that's your business. You just keep keep pointing out flaws, but with this warning. "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matt 7:2.

Ross
Scholar
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #75

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:30 am
Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:57 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
Ross wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:12 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:24 pm

Because of this personal policy you keep posting things in ignorance of what Jehovah Witnesses actually believe today compared to the cherry picked sentences from biased posters of what JWs used to believe a hundred years ago...It doesn't seem that you're worried about propaganda as you are swallowing other posters propaganda hook line and sinker.

This is terrible, and indecent spin, deviation from the discussion, and smoke and mirrors. Please allow me to clarify:

One of your colleagues stated that Jehovah's Witnesses or the WTS had NEVER claimed to be prophets.

I proved this to be completely false by quoting Watchtower articles from many time periods up to and including the 1970's. ( Hardly a hundred years ago.)

You now accuse me of cherry picking sentences from decades ago.

How do you perceive and understand the term 'NEVER'?
Did you read the links I posted earlier? If you did and understood them then you wouldn't be posting this. But is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about. Or at least you'd be asking me about what I posted....but you're not. You will keep posting in ignorance until you read the links I posted. And if you say, 'what links are you talking about', I will not post them again and do your work for you because you don't like to read for whatever excuse you give me. I don't care about your post until you inform yourself. Stop the excuses and read or don't and stay in ignorance so that I can keep pointing it out. Or are you scared of what JWs publish? Maybe that is it? Scared of finding out that you're wrong? Is that why do you will not read the links I posted? If you don't respond to the info I pointed to then I have to accept you're scared. I await your excuse to staying ignorant of what JWs actually believe today in 2023.
It is amusing to me that you think I am scared.

I browsed through your 'links' which contain pretty much exactly what I expected to see. And yes of course in 2023 and earlier, history has forced the movement ( WTS, Charles Taze Russell, Jehovah's visible organization on earth, remnant of anointed Jehovah's Witnesses, Governing Body, ( call it whatever you will )) to adjust it's views on it's previous claim to be the modern day prophet of God.

This does not though change the erroneous claim by one of your associates within this thread that the WTS never claimed to be prophets. You cant whitewash historical facts by providing propaganda spin in the form of Watchtower links.
Who said I was whitewashing anything? I'm going to give you a huge piece of wisdom...lets see what you do with it.

Psalm 130:3, "If errors were what you watch, O Jah, Then who, O Jehovah, could stand?"
Psalm 86: 5, “You, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive.”

Let's look at those scriptures in reverse.

'Errors are what you watch,'
'You are bad and are not ready to forgive'

I like to be known for following Godlike qualities. I know the hearts of my associates because we share the same hope. They strive to follow Godlike qualities as to I. If you don't that's your business. You just keep keep pointing out flaws, but with this warning. "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matt 7:2.
I guess that is as close as you are possibly able to come to admit that there was erroneous statement made on this thread that I corrected.

It is exactly the same arrogance, holier than thou attitude, and elevation of self importance that is evident in the leadership that hardwires, programs, moulds and mentally sculptures the remainder of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ross
Scholar
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #76

Post by Ross »

FALSE PROPHESIES FROM THE FALSE PROPHET


1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men".[29]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions". Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy". The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us".[38]
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century.... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that".[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45][46]
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "[s]hortly, within our twentieth century".[47]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service".[48]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[49]
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[50] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20548
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 337 times
Contact:

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #77

Post by otseng »

Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:30 pm And where did you learn this grammar? It is not English.
Are you really a Jehovah's Witness?
Moderator Comment

Please debate without commenting on another.

Please review the Rules.





______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9151
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1250 times
Been thanked: 320 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #78

Post by onewithhim »

Ross wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:57 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:26 pm
Ross wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:12 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:24 pm

Because of this personal policy you keep posting things in ignorance of what Jehovah Witnesses actually believe today compared to the cherry picked sentences from biased posters of what JWs used to believe a hundred years ago...It doesn't seem that you're worried about propaganda as you are swallowing other posters propaganda hook line and sinker.

This is terrible, and indecent spin, deviation from the discussion, and smoke and mirrors. Please allow me to clarify:

One of your colleagues stated that Jehovah's Witnesses or the WTS had NEVER claimed to be prophets.

I proved this to be completely false by quoting Watchtower articles from many time periods up to and including the 1970's. ( Hardly a hundred years ago.)

You now accuse me of cherry picking sentences from decades ago.

How do you perceive and understand the term 'NEVER'?
Did you read the links I posted earlier? If you did and understood them then you wouldn't be posting this. But is seems from the above you have not idea what you're talking about. Or at least you'd be asking me about what I posted....but you're not. You will keep posting in ignorance until you read the links I posted. And if you say, 'what links are you talking about', I will not post them again and do your work for you because you don't like to read for whatever excuse you give me. I don't care about your post until you inform yourself. Stop the excuses and read or don't and stay in ignorance so that I can keep pointing it out. Or are you scared of what JWs publish? Maybe that is it? Scared of finding out that you're wrong? Is that why do you will not read the links I posted? If you don't respond to the info I pointed to then I have to accept you're scared. I await your excuse to staying ignorant of what JWs actually believe today in 2023.
It is amusing to me that you think I am scared.

I browsed through your 'links' which contain pretty much exactly what I expected to see. And yes of course in 2023 and earlier, history has forced the movement ( WTS, Charles Taze Russell, Jehovah's visible organization on earth, remnant of anointed Jehovah's Witnesses, Governing Body, ( call it whatever you will )) to adjust it's views on it's previous claim to be the modern day prophet of God.

This does not though change the erroneous claim by one of your associates within this thread that the WTS never claimed to be prophets. You cant whitewash historical facts by providing propaganda spin in the form of Watchtower links.
Your posts aren't even worthy of responses. It was I who said that the WTS never claimed to be a prophet. Perhaps I misspoke, I can't recall the particular post. But it is TODAY that matters. They have more recently understood the difference between a prophet and a watchman who warns the people of immanent doom for the wicked. You call Jehovah unkind things without knowing what is actually going to happen. He is not out to destroy anybody, and begs people to listen to Him. If they do, they can live forever in Paradise. Where did you miss out on these facts?

You're not going to get any further with your very rude and unkind posts, so how about vacating the premises? :D

"Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2Peter 3:9) He is out to rid the earth of evil and confusion, and make the earth a safe place for people and animals. So stop inferring that he is an ogre who delights in genocide.

"I Jehovah am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Isaiah 48:17,18)

Ross
Scholar
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:09 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #79

Post by Ross »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:53 pm
It was I who said that the WTS never claimed to be a prophet. Perhaps I misspoke, I can't recall the particular post.
At last a half admission. It took all of the prior for you to eventually cough it out.
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:53 pm
You're not going to get any further with your very rude and unkind posts, so how about vacating the premises? :D
Sorry if you perceive correction as rude and unkind, but this is a Bible debate forum, not a JW Kingdom Hall podium. It is rude and unkind to misrepresent the truth which your faith has a history of doing. I think I will stick around though so that honest people are not inadvertently deceived further. ;)
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:53 pm He is out to rid the earth of evil and confusion, and make the earth a safe place for people and animals. So stop inferring that he is an ogre who delights in genocide.
It is the interpretation of the Bible from your own Watchtower publications that do that.

Bust Nak
Savant
Posts: 9874
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:03 am
Location: Planet Earth
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 266 times

Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #80

Post by Bust Nak »

Ross wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:38 am It is exactly the same arrogance, holier than thou attitude, and elevation of self importance that is evident in the leadership that hardwires, programs, moulds and mentally sculptures the remainder of Jehovah's Witnesses.
:warning: Moderator Warning


Please refrain from inflammatory comments.

Please review our Rules.


______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Post Reply