How do Theists explain Matter?

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boatsnguitars
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How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #1

Post by boatsnguitars »

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #31

Post by Eloi »

boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:50 amHow can something non-material make matter? Magic?
Can a woman trigger all the signs of pregnancy in her body just by thinking that she really is pregnant even if she really isn't? YES, IT HAPPENS ... and I can think of this as an example of a thought that produces real physical consequences. Actually, there are several examples of physical effects produced only by thoughts, such as the famous stigmata of religious fanatics.

If matter is compressed energy, it is obvious that a not-material Inteligent Being with enough energy can manipulate it and create matter out of it. That is something the Bible talks about:

Is. 40:22 There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
23 He reduces high officials to nothing
And makes the judges of the earth an unreality.
24 They are hardly planted,
They are hardly sown,
Their stem has hardly taken root in the earth,
And they are blown on and dry up,
And the wind carries them away like stubble.
25 “To whom can you liken me to make me his equal?” says the Holy One.
26 “Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number;
He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,
Not one of them is missing.

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #32

Post by boatsnguitars »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:47 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:50 amHow can something non-material make matter? Magic?
Can a woman trigger all the signs of pregnancy in her body just by thinking that she really is pregnant even if she really isn't? YES, IT HAPPENS ... and I can think of this as an example of a thought that produces real physical consequences. Actually, there are several examples of physical effects produced only by thoughts, such as the famous stigmata of religious fanatics.

If matter is compressed energy, it is obvious that a not-material Inteligent Being with enough energy can manipulate it and create matter out of it. That is something the Bible talks about:
The woman and religious fanatic have physical brains, and the chemicals in their body are regulated by the brain. The experiences they have are physical.

They aren't creating new Matter out of thoughts, they are redirecting chemicals.

Both of your examples suggest that you believe God is a physical being and that is how he created the Universe: from his physical brain.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #33

Post by Eloi »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:17 pm ... they are redirecting chemicals. ...
With their thoughts. ;)
You seem to believe that thoughts are material. :!:

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #34

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:42 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:17 pm ... they are redirecting chemicals. ...
With their thoughts. ;)
You seem to believe that thoughts are material. :!:
So, what is the alternative?

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #35

Post by boatsnguitars »

Eloi wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:42 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:17 pm ... they are redirecting chemicals. ...
With their thoughts. ;)
You seem to believe that thoughts are material. :!:
Show us where a thought left the confines of the physical body it was in and created Matter. Tell us how that happens.

And, yes, thoughts are physical:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01304-9

Semantic reconstruction of continuous language from non-invasive brain recordings
Jerry Tang, Amanda LeBel, Shailee Jain & Alexander G. Huth
Nature Neuroscience volume 26, pages858–866 (2023)Cite this article

Abstract
A brain–computer interface that decodes continuous language from non-invasive recordings would have many scientific and practical applications. Currently, however, non-invasive language decoders can only identify stimuli from among a small set of words or phrases. Here we introduce a non-invasive decoder that reconstructs continuous language from cortical semantic representations recorded using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). Given novel brain recordings, this decoder generates intelligible word sequences that recover the meaning of perceived speech, imagined speech and even silent videos, demonstrating that a single decoder can be applied to a range of tasks. We tested the decoder across cortex and found that continuous language can be separately decoded from multiple regions. As brain–computer interfaces should respect mental privacy, we tested whether successful decoding requires subject cooperation and found that subject cooperation is required both to train and to apply the decoder. Our findings demonstrate the viability of non-invasive language brain–computer interfaces.

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“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: How do Theists explain Matter?

Post #36

Post by Eloi »

Scientists discovered that matter is concentrated energy. They have even managed to explode a particle to expand all that internal energy it contained. Unfortunately that knowledge has been used to create bombs.

It seems evident to me that all matter consists of an immeasurable amount of energy that was somehow compacted to make way for a new type of let's call "existence".

Scientists experiment by colliding two particles to see if another of a different type can emerge. Somehow they can control these collisions... These experiments that require very advanced technologies demonstrate that for a particle to arise requires an event that needs to be carefully directed and controlled... especially if a series of similar events would result in a universe like ours, and a planet as special as this one we live on, with everything it contains. The role of human intelligence directing and controlling these experiments, who performed it when our universe was being formed?

Indeed, what is more complex: an airplane or a simple sparrow?

“[God’s] invisible qualities . . . are perceived by the things made.”​—Romans 1:20.

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