How do Theists explain Matter?

[boatsnguitars]

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

[boatsnguitars]

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

No takers?

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #2]

No takers?

I'm no theist, but I expect the issue might be this part:

"... it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?"

This IS their explanation for matter, just worded differently in the various creation myths.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #2]

No takers?

I'm no theist, but I expect the issue might be this part:

"... it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?"

This IS their explanation for matter, just worded differently in the various creation myths.

It's interesting because Theists usually feel they have the upper hand by posing God of the Gaps arguments: How do Atheist explain morals, how do Atheists explain Life, etc.

But, when it directly challenges their world view, they seem to scurry to the dark shadows.

[JoeyKnothead]

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

"Goddidit."

[tam]

Peace to you,

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

I don't see the problem.

E = mc2 Explained


Einstein's Big Idea homepage

E = mc2. It's the world's most famous equation, but what does it really mean? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing. Under the right conditions, energy can become mass, and vice versa. We humans don't see them that way—how can a beam of light and a walnut, say, be different forms of the same thing?—but Nature does.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html

If matter is just another form of energy, then what is the problem?


As for speaking the Light into existence:

Light is defined as the electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths between 380 and 750 nm which is visible to the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation, such as light, is generated by changes in movement (vibration) of electrically charged particles, such as parts of ‘heated’ molecules, or electrons in atoms (both processes play a role in the glowing filament of incandescent lamps, whereas the latter occurs in fluorescent lamps).

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_ ... ectrum.htm


So you have energy, heat, and vibration (speaking causes vibration does it not?). Not a magical incantation, but the actual source and/or 'birth' of the Light.


I'm sure there are more details than that, but I just do not see how it presents a problem.


Peace again to you!

[boatsnguitars]

Peace to you,

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

I don't see the problem.

E = mc2 Explained


Einstein's Big Idea homepage

E = mc2. It's the world's most famous equation, but what does it really mean? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing. Under the right conditions, energy can become mass, and vice versa. We humans don't see them that way—how can a beam of light and a walnut, say, be different forms of the same thing?—but Nature does.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html

If matter is just another form of energy, then what is the problem?


As for speaking the Light into existence:

Light is defined as the electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths between 380 and 750 nm which is visible to the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation, such as light, is generated by changes in movement (vibration) of electrically charged particles, such as parts of ‘heated’ molecules, or electrons in atoms (both processes play a role in the glowing filament of incandescent lamps, whereas the latter occurs in fluorescent lamps).

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_ ... ectrum.htm


So you have energy, heat, and vibration (speaking causes vibration does it not?). Not a magical incantation, but the actual source and/or 'birth' of the Light.

Sound waves are energy that is transferred into a physical medium, like air or water. If there was no Matter before he spoke, it would have been silence and it's worse than that.

How does his "immateriality" mean that he had Energy that makes up Matter? What is this energy you speak of? Potential Energy? Electrical Energy? Chemical Energy? Be specific.

And how did he speak? He doesn't have a body to blow air over vocal cords.

Think.

I'm sure there are more details than that, but I just do not see how it presents a problem.

Yeah, there probably are more details, and I know it doesn't present a problem for Theists, because they assume it's magic.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Theist claim God is immaterial. Materialists claim E=m*c2. That Energy and speed were always in existence, thus Matter. They are the true Trinity.

How do Theists explain an immaterial Being spoke "Let there be light" and it happened without resorting to it being a magical incantation?
How do Theists explain how Matter exists at all?

I don't see the problem.

E = mc2 Explained


Einstein's Big Idea homepage

E = mc2. It's the world's most famous equation, but what does it really mean? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing. Under the right conditions, energy can become mass, and vice versa. We humans don't see them that way—how can a beam of light and a walnut, say, be different forms of the same thing?—but Nature does.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/ ... 2expl.html

If matter is just another form of energy, then what is the problem?


As for speaking the Light into existence:

Light is defined as the electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths between 380 and 750 nm which is visible to the human eye. Electromagnetic radiation, such as light, is generated by changes in movement (vibration) of electrically charged particles, such as parts of ‘heated’ molecules, or electrons in atoms (both processes play a role in the glowing filament of incandescent lamps, whereas the latter occurs in fluorescent lamps).

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_ ... ectrum.htm


So you have energy, heat, and vibration (speaking causes vibration does it not?). Not a magical incantation, but the actual source and/or 'birth' of the Light.

Sound waves are energy that is transferred into a physical medium, like air or water. If there was no Matter before he spoke, it would have been silence and it's worse than that.

How does his "immateriality" mean that he had Energy that makes up Matter?

Immaterial just means not physical.

The spiritual is still made up of energy.

What is this energy you speak of? Potential Energy? Electrical Energy? Chemical Energy? Be specific.

Dynamic energy. I do not know what specific kinds of energy that includes (if not all of them).

And how did he speak? He doesn't have a body to blow air over vocal cords.

I think you are mistaken in what you believe God can or cannot do. He breathed into Adam. How did He do that if He had no capacity for breath (or for giving it)?

Just because the mechanics of something are not yet understood does not make it 'magic'.

Think.

Indeed.

I'm sure there are more details than that, but I just do not see how it presents a problem.

Yeah, there probably are more details, and I know it doesn't present a problem for Theists, because they assume it's magic.

Or some of them know there are many things in the universe (known and unknown) that are not yet discovered or understood, without assuming that means 'magic'.


There are things we do today that people a couple/few thousand years ago might have assumed is 'magic', but it is not.

There are things in this world that I do not understand, but I do not assume it is magic. I just don't know the details myself. Others do.

Same goes with God and the spiritual. I can get a sense of some things, but if you want me to describe the specific scientific process, I cannot because I do not know it. There are probably others out there with a better understanding of the science than me, even if it might not be complete understanding. We might not even have the scientific tools needed to fully understand it, just yet.

That doesn't make it 'magic'.


Peace again to you.

[brunumb]

The spiritual is still made up of energy.

What is this energy you speak of? Potential Energy? Electrical Energy? Chemical Energy? Be specific.

Dynamic energy. I do not know what specific kinds of energy that includes (if not all of them).

On what basis are you saying that it is dynamic energy? Why has science not caught up with this form of energy while you are in a position to claim its existence? Simply making stuff up is not the scientific method.

[tam]

Peace to you,

The spiritual is still made up of energy.

What is this energy you speak of? Potential Energy? Electrical Energy? Chemical Energy? Be specific.

Dynamic energy. I do not know what specific kinds of energy that includes (if not all of them).

On what basis are you saying that it is dynamic energy? Why has science not caught up with this form of energy while you are in a position to claim its existence? Simply making stuff up is not the scientific method.

Doesn't dynamic just mean active?


Peace to you.