Three days /three nights and the Pharisees

[rstrats]

When responding to the Pharisees, why do you suppose the Messiah made the specific point that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights?

[onewithhim]

You can use and bible translation you desire. Is that not reasonable enough? You propose an allegoric death and execution of Christ. Fine. But do you understand that just saying something (and pointing to a Bishop) is not the presentation of evidence thereof? Present some scriptural support for your position. Really does that sound like an unreasonable request?

The whole Bible...

Fine Well if its "the whole bible" you should have no trouble finding one or two specific passages (out of the 35,000 or so verses) therein to support your position.

The specific passage that says it's allegorical? First show me where is says the talking serpent is allegorical, or, if you think that is literal, how about you show me the passage that shows the 3 days and nights is allegorical, or whatever you believe is allegorical?
The fact is, it doesn't say, "Hey, this part is allegorical" - because it's obvious.

Indeed I've actually had discussions on an allegorical resurrection in the writings of Paul but this idea of the gospel account of Jesus of Nazareth actually not dying at all (and instead taking an extended nap) is an entirely novel to me. I am requesting scripture. That's what we do over here in TD&D.

Don't care. That's not Spong's claim. Spong claims Jesus died and his soul lives in Heaven - as is written in the Bible. Particularly Paul's accounts, but throughout the Bible - allegorically.

I'm not sure how you can argue differently - knowing what we know.

All I can say to your twisted reasoning is that a person needs the Holy Spirit to understand Scriptures. It is pretty easy to see which passages are allegorical and which are literal. There is nothing allegorical about Jesus' death and resurrection and his being at the right hand of God in heaven. I would not give a plug nickel for anything Spong says. As Paul says, if Jesus didn't die for us and then raised up, we are still in our sins and will die that way, miserable people.

Does this look like Jesus rose allegorically? => "If Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and our faith is in vain....If Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins." (I Corinthians 15: 14,17)

[Eddie Ramos]

WE know that the Biblical calendar begins the new day with evening and then morning. Evening identifying with the 12 hours of night and morning with the 12 hours of the day...The Bible also gives us some scriptures which help us place the beginning of the new day at evening, which is 6pm. From 6 PM till 6 AM are the "night" time period...

OK, I was just confused when you said three times that afternoon was night time.

The mistake was mine, I should've used the correct word to begin with. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Eddie Ramos]

WE know that the Biblical calendar begins the new day with evening and then morning. Evening identifying with the 12 hours of night and morning with the 12 hours of the day...The Bible also gives us some scriptures which help us place the beginning of the new day at evening, which is 6pm. From 6 PM till 6 AM are the "night" time period...

OK, I was just confused when you said three times that afternoon was night time.

The mistake was mine. I should've the correct word to begin with. Thanks for pointing it out.

[boatsnguitars]

You can use and bible translation you desire. Is that not reasonable enough? You propose an allegoric death and execution of Christ. Fine. But do you understand that just saying something (and pointing to a Bishop) is not the presentation of evidence thereof? Present some scriptural support for your position. Really does that sound like an unreasonable request?

The whole Bible...

Fine Well if its "the whole bible" you should have no trouble finding one or two specific passages (out of the 35,000 or so verses) therein to support your position.

The specific passage that says it's allegorical? First show me where is says the talking serpent is allegorical, or, if you think that is literal, how about you show me the passage that shows the 3 days and nights is allegorical, or whatever you believe is allegorical?
The fact is, it doesn't say, "Hey, this part is allegorical" - because it's obvious.

Indeed I've actually had discussions on an allegorical resurrection in the writings of Paul but this idea of the gospel account of Jesus of Nazareth actually not dying at all (and instead taking an extended nap) is an entirely novel to me. I am requesting scripture. That's what we do over here in TD&D.

Don't care. That's not Spong's claim. Spong claims Jesus died and his soul lives in Heaven - as is written in the Bible. Particularly Paul's accounts, but throughout the Bible - allegorically.

I'm not sure how you can argue differently - knowing what we know.

All I can say to your twisted reasoning is that a person needs the Holy Spirit to understand Scriptures. It is pretty easy to see which passages are allegorical and which are literal. There is nothing allegorical about Jesus' death and resurrection and his being at the right hand of God in heaven. I would not give a plug nickel for anything Spong says. As Paul says, if Jesus didn't die for us and then raised up, we are still in our sins and will die that way, miserable people.

Does this look like Jesus rose allegorically? => "If Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and our faith is in vain....If Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins." (I Corinthians 15: 14,17)

"Raised up" ... to Heaven. Get it right.

I get that there are some denominations that demand that their followers believe in literal floods, talking snakes, etc. I get that they are taught to reject scientific facts that there was no Exodus, but I don't have to be part of those cults. I don't need to reject reality to see what the Bible says.

The sad fact that you will soon realize is that it is you twisting the Scriptures into something they never meant to say literally, only allegorically. That's on you.

[rstrats]

So far only 1 post has been responsive to the OP. But perhaps someone new looking in may have a different thought on the significance of the 3 daytimes and the 3 night times of that specific time period.

[boatsnguitars]

Here is a paper I wrote for my Bible Study Group regarding 1 Cor 15.


The Allegorical Resurrection of Jesus: 1 Corinthians 15

Abstract:

This paper supports a realistic perspective on the resurrection of Jesus Christ as described in 1 Corinthians 15. Rather than viewing this resurrection as a physical event, there is a more robust interpretation that aligns with Reality as we know it. The Apostle Paul, through the careful choice of Greek terminology, suggests that Jesus' rising signifies an allegorical ascension of his consciousness and mythic force, much like the veneration of historical figures. This interpretation holds significant implications for the Christian faith, highlighting the enduring power of Christ's message and the transformative impact of his teachings.

Introduction:

The First Epistle to the Corinthians features a pivotal passage in 1 Corinthians 15:14 and 17, where the Apostle Paul addresses the resurrection of Christ and its profound significance for the Christian faith. Paul emphatically states that the Christian faith is meaningless if Christ has not been raised, and believers remain mired in their sins. The favored interpretation is that 1 Cor 15 suggests the resurrection of Jesus is not a physical event but rather an allegorical one.

The Greek word εγειρω (egeiro) plays a central role in this interpretation, as it carries nuanced meanings that extend beyond a simple physical rising. While it is conventionally translated as "rise" or "awaken," εγειρω implies a far more profound awakening from a state of inactivity or unconsciousness, an invitation to become alert and focused, and an initiation of a journey towards deeper understanding. It signifies the unification of scattered thoughts or unconscious attentions into a unified purpose.

The Allegorical Resurrection:

Based on the multifaceted connotations of εγειρω, there is a robust allegorical interpretation of the resurrection of Jesus as presented by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. In this view, Paul is not referring to a literal, bodily resurrection but rather to the ascension of Jesus' consciousness and mythic force to a symbolic status. This status resembles the veneration of historical figures such as saints or heroes, enabling believers to rally around a central idea and derive profound meaning from it.

In this allegorical interpretation, Jesus becomes a symbol of moral and spiritual guidance, embodying the values and principles he preached. His teachings, life, and the transformative power of his ministry transcend a mere historical account of resurrection and instead become an enduring narrative of spiritual awakening and transformation. Consequently, Paul's message in 1 Corinthians 15 may be seen as an invitation to embrace the allegorical resurrection of Jesus, recognizing the profound and lasting impact of his life and teachings. It can be said, that under this view, Jesus has literally rose after his death to mythic status, and his message has become transcendental and beyond anything physical or tied to his body. This is true for many mythic characters, like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., Rosa Parks, etc.
Jesus "lives" because his message lives on in all of his followers.

Implications for Christianity:

The allegorical interpretation of the resurrection of Jesus proposed in this paper carries profound implications for Christianity. It challenges traditional views of resurrection and underscores the enduring power of Christ's message and legacy. If Jesus is understood as having risen allegorically, he becomes a mythic force that provides Christians with a moral and spiritual foundation.

This perspective affirms that Christians need not hinge their faith solely on the physical resurrection of Jesus to find meaning and purpose - which, is a reasonable view according to facts and science that we understand today. Instead, they can draw inspiration and guidance from the enduring legacy of Jesus as a moral and spiritual leader, much like the veneration of other revered figures in history. They can, also, believe that they too can live on like Jesus if they continue to follow Jesus's teachings. They can join Jesus in spreading the message, by being Jesus-like.

Conclusion:

The interpretation of the resurrection of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15, emphasizing the allegorical nature of his rising, presents a robust and compelling perspective on the Christian faith. By recognizing the mythic force of Jesus, his message, and the enduring power of his teachings, believers can derive profound meaning and purpose without being solely dependent on a literal resurrection. This perspective encourages a deeper reflection on the spiritual and moral dimensions of Christianity, inviting Christians to embrace the allegorical resurrection as a source of inspiration and guidance. It is a call to see Jesus not only as a historical figure but also as a symbol of spiritual awakening and transformation, thus enriching the Christian faith and its significance in the lives of its adherents. And, one doesn't need to deny science or reality by asserting that the supernatural or miracles are real despite any evidence to the contrary. It allows Christians to live in Truth.

[rstrats]

Here is a paper I wrote for my Bible Study Group regarding 1 Cor 15.

I shall add this to the list of off topic comments.

[boatsnguitars]

Here is a paper I wrote for my Bible Study Group regarding 1 Cor 15.

I shall add this to the list of off topic comments.

In the context of the paper's interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15 and the potential allegorical nature of Jesus' resurrection, the specific reference to being in the "heart of the earth" for three days and three nights takes on a nuanced significance. While the paper primarily focuses on Paul's writings, addressing a passage from the Gospel accounts provides an interesting perspective on this particular aspect of Jesus' teachings.

In Matthew 12:40, Jesus himself speaks of being in the "heart of the earth" for three days and three nights. This statement is often interpreted in a literal sense, referring to the period between his crucifixion and resurrection. However, it can also be viewed through a symbolic lens, consistent with the allegorical interpretation proposed in the paper.

From an allegorical standpoint, Jesus' time in the "heart of the earth" for three days and three nights may represent a period of profound transformation and spiritual awakening. During this time, his teachings, his message, and the essence of his ministry could have been internalized and absorbed into the collective consciousness of his followers. This period of apparent absence, whether viewed literally or allegorically, served as a catalyst for a more profound understanding and a unification of purpose among his disciples.

The paper reinforces the idea that the significance of Jesus transcends mere historical events. It highlights the transformative power of his teachings and the enduring impact of his message, suggesting that even in apparent absence, he continued to shape the hearts and minds of his followers.

Therefore, while this reference to the "heart of the earth" may have had a literal dimension in the Gospel accounts, it can also be seen as a symbol of the deeper, allegorical meaning of Jesus' resurrection and the enduring influence of his message, aligning with the broader interpretation presented in the paper.

[rstrats]

...Jesus' time in the "heart of the earth" for three days and three nights may represent a period of profound transformation and spiritual awakening.

But why was the specific period of time of three days and three nights given as the sign for the scribes and Pharisees? Was there something special about it that the Messiah thought would satisfy their request??

[boatsnguitars]

...Jesus' time in the "heart of the earth" for three days and three nights may represent a period of profound transformation and spiritual awakening.

But why was the specific period of time of three days and three nights given as the sign for the scribes and Pharisees? Was there something special about it that the Messiah thought would satisfy their request??

From an allegorical perspective, the "three days and three nights" represents a symbolic period of spiritual darkness or challenge, akin to Jonah's time in the belly of the fish. This period signifies the struggles and trials faced by Jesus and his followers. The subsequent resurrection can then be seen as a metaphorical awakening, a renewal of faith, and a transformative event that transcends the literal understanding of resurrection.

The scribes and Pharisees, who were seeking tangible signs, would not have grasped this allegorical aspect of Jesus' message. They might have been looking for more immediate and concrete evidence, which made the reference to "three days and three nights" appear enigmatic to them.

Because of this desire to see things literally (as religious people are wont to do), the stories about Jesus's alleged resurrection started to morph into what followed with Mark, etc. They needed to make it sound literal so the Pharisees would believe that Jesus was Messiah.

Of course, it's very telling that they didn't believe - since there was no reason to believe in the literal resurrection of someone.