Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

[Skeptical]

I've enjoyed many of the X-Men movies and one character who I particularly thought was interesting was Kitty Pryde played by Ellen Page.



However, I was completely surprised when I found out that Ellen transitioned into Elliot Page fairly recently in the year 2020. Also, I recently read an article about his past gender dysphoria.

Thinking back to when he was much younger, prior to coming out as transgender, the 36-year-old actor recalled the discomfort that came with his changing body. “My body started to change and clothes sat on me differently,” Page added. “And all of that just was, really was the beginning of really sort of disconnecting from myself and feeling a degree of discomfort that was very erosive and damaging.”

Elliot Page on How His Acting Career Impacted His Gender Dysphoria

Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of distress or discomfort because of the difference between a person’s gender (assigned at birth) and their gender identity. This applies to both males who are assigned a female gender at birth and females who were assigned the male gender at birth. People with gender dysphoria are normally transgender...

Dysphoria vs. Dysmorphia

Also, I had always wondered about this and wanted to ask Christians and JWs about this topic. Plus, years ago when I Bible studied with JWs and even went to some of their meetings at one of their Kingdom Halls, I remember seeing a man dressed up as a woman in the audience and standing up and signing JW Kingdom songs along with the rest of JWs, but I thought to myself that he or she must really be trying to change coming to the Kingdom Hall dressed like that.

Therefore, I wanted to ask Christians and JWs: Do trans members ever really change and stop being trans? Also, I am aware of the Bible verses that Christians and JWs use to condemn trans people such as Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14–15, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 where Young's Literal Translation renders that verse as:

have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

where the word "effeminate" is translated from the Greek word μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which means, "(a) soft, (b) of persons: soft, delicate, effeminate. Of uncertain affinity; soft." And I guess it's vice versa for masculine women. However, I would like to know other than the Bible saying don't be like this or don't be like that, do Christians or JWs ever wonder about why a person has cross gender identification in the first place? Because it's difficult for me to imagine that a little child who feels this way is being sinister and is trying to sin against God. Because to me, there always seemed to be a lot more to it such as how their brains function. Plus, it seem as if they're being blamed for something that they have no control over:

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

[JehovahsWitness]

I do not know if anyone that has fully transitioned that has made the decision to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses but I do remember reading the lifestyle of MAURÍCIO ARAÚJO who I suppose would today be described as TRANS: “They Were Very Kind to Me.”​: The Bible Changes Lives https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&do ... are&par=17

.... I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said that MAURÍCIO ARAÚJO was a trans person. Unless I missed something.

Although, I did see in the second paragraph where it said:

My father died while my mother was expecting me. As a young boy, I dressed in my mother’s clothes while she was out. I adopted feminine mannerisms, and people started to view me as gay. In time, I began having sex with other boys and men.

However, I wouldn't quite view that as trans, but homosexual.

The article was published in 2012 and although the expression "trans " has existed since the 90s it has gained popularity only in recent years. This might explain the absence of the actual label. Mauricios desire to wear women's clothes at such a young age indicates he had gender issues: transgender refers to someone's gender identity and not their sexuality orientation. A trans person can be gender fluid and not identify as a woman all the time and can be attracted to men, women or both. As for being gay [homosexual] MAURÍCIO explained

"...By the time I reached my late teens, I was actively seeking sexual partners (both male and female)" The Bible Changes Lives https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&do ... are&par=17

[Skeptical]

I do not know if anyone that has fully transitioned that has made the decision to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses but I do remember reading the lifestyle of MAURÍCIO ARAÚJO who I suppose would today be described as TRANS: “They Were Very Kind to Me.”​: The Bible Changes Lives https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&do ... are&par=17

.... I didn't see anywhere in the article where it said that MAURÍCIO ARAÚJO was a trans person. Unless I missed something.

Although, I did see in the second paragraph where it said:

My father died while my mother was expecting me. As a young boy, I dressed in my mother’s clothes while she was out. I adopted feminine mannerisms, and people started to view me as gay. In time, I began having sex with other boys and men.

However, I wouldn't quite view that as trans, but homosexual.

The article was published in 2012 and although the expression "trans " has existed since the 90s it has gained popularity only in recent years. This might explain the absence of the actual label. Mauricios desire to wear women's clothes at such a young age indicates he had gender issues: transgender refers to someone's gender identity and not their sexuality orientation. A trans person can be gender fluid and not identify as a woman all the time and can be attracted to men, women or both. As for being gay [homosexual] MAURÍCIO explained

"...By the time I reached my late teens, I was actively seeking sexual partners (both male and female)" The Bible Changes Lives https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&do ... are&par=17

Perhaps so, however, from that I know about JWs, the kindness toward LGBTQ people isn't always the case. I know of situations where even if an LGBTQ JW is trying to follow their religion, there are some who are dismissive and hateful towards them. Also, from what I know, JWs are very apathetic and clueless about the LGBTQ people, therefore, besides this particular example, which would obviously be shown off in JW publications, there are other cases that I know about where dislike, prejudice, and mistreatment has been shown toward LGBTQ JWs. And where only 1 Corinthians 6:11 is shown to them as the ultimate answer to their situation.

[JehovahsWitness]

I know of situations where even if an LGBTQ JW is trying to follow their religion, there are some who are dismissive and hateful towards them.

I'm surprised to hear that; Jehovahs Witnesses have a reputation of being kind to all people even those that hate and persecute them, how much more to those that are making an effort to join them.

I personally have a friend who is gay and has associatesd with us over the years and he has never expressed to me being treated with unkindness. Indeed I have known several JWs of both sexes that formerly lead homosexual lifestyles and none have told me they were treated hatefuly (it is unlikely they would have joined our religion if they were).

People with gender dysphoria are less common and unless they are visibly transitioning, less visible but a friend of mine who is a Jehovahs Witness works with someone from that community and he was telling me what a nice person was. I feel completely confident my friend would not be unkind in his treatent of his colleague.


I don't know how you came across the reports of Jehovah’s Witness mistreatment of trans people but I would say you would be better relying, as I do, on first hand experiences rather than open yourself up to misinforation or disinformation on the internet.

RELATED POSTS

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[JehovahsWitness]

...from what I know, JWs are very ... clueless about the LGBTQ people...

Since we are so much a part of our local communities, visiting homes and interacting with the people that live around us we probably know a more about LGBTQ people than the general population.

As for being "clueless", you yourself in this very thread have demonstrated you do not understand that gender should not be confused with sexuality, but I knew that...so I have reason to believe thay JWs are more knowledgeable than non-Witnesses about them.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #26]

Cain killed Abel because he can't kill God and he resents God.

How do you feel this is relevant?

Why don't you accept Allah? Do you hate Allah?

Of course I hate Allah. I hate what God hates.

OK, then, of course I hate God - I hate what is unreasonable.

[Skeptical]

I know of situations where even if an LGBTQ JW is trying to follow their religion, there are some who are dismissive and hateful towards them.

I'm surprised to hear that; Jehovahs Witnesses have a reputation of being kind to all people even those that hate and persecute them, how much more to those that are making an effort to join them.

I personally have a friend who is gay and has associatesd with us over the years and he has never expressed to me being treated with unkindness. Indeed I have known several JWs of both sexes that formerly lead homosexual lifestyles and none have told me they were treated hatefuly (it is unlikely they would have joined our religion if they were).

From what I have learned, one can make bad decisions out of desperation. Also, that seems to be how Christianity and the Bible beckons others, meaning, through their desperation.

People with gender dysphoria are less common and unless they are visibly transitioning, less visible but a friend of mine who is a Jehovahs Witness works with someone from that community and he was telling me what a nice person was. I feel completely confident my friend would not be unkind in his treatent of his colleague.

Who was telling whom what a nice person they were? Was your friend saying what a nice person the trans person was, or was the trans person saying what a nice person your friend was? Because you did not write that clearly.

I don't know how you came across the reports of Jehovah’s Witness mistreatment of trans people but I would say you would be better relying, as I do, on first hand experiences rather than open yourself up to misinforation or disinformation on the internet.

But how do I know whether or not you're giving misinformation or disinformation on the internet? Because what I've seen of JWs, they only believe and trust what they learn from the Watchtower and jw.org. But anything else is met with skepticism, doubt, and distrust. Therefore, it appears that JWs want to see things from a one-sided story. However, for me personally, I think it's better to have both sides of the story and I know that you disagree with that.

[JehovahsWitness]

But how do I know whether or not you're giving misinformation or disinformation on the internet?

You don't, so get off the computer , meet some Jehovahs Witnesses, visit our kingdom hall, socialize with us. Find some that formerly had these lifestyles, ask them how they were treated. Interview personally others (verify by third party eye witness testimony they are being truthful) then come to a balanced two sided conclusion.

...I think it's better to have both sides of the story and I know that you disagree with that.

You are wrong; I do not disagree with that. See above



JW

[Skeptical]

But how do I know whether or not you're giving misinformation or disinformation on the internet?

You don't, so get off the computer , meet some Jehovahs Witnesses, visit our kingdom hall, socialize with us. Find some that formerly had these lifestyles, ask them how they were treated. Interview personally others (verify by third party eye witness testimony they are being truthful) then come to a balanced two sided conclusion.

All over the United States or even all over the world? Because I had heard that attitudes and personalities differ a bit according to where JWs live and their environment and experiences. Because it's hard for me to believe that all JWs all around the world are carbon copies of each other.

...I think it's better to have both sides of the story and I know that you disagree with that.

You are wrong; I do not disagree with that. See above



JW

But that's not what I meant.  

[JehovahsWitness]

...I think it's better to have both sides of the story and I know that you disagree with that.

You are wrong; I do not disagree with that. See above



JW

But that's not what I meant.  

Well then express yourself clearer so I can see what you really mean.




JW

[Skeptical]

...I think it's better to have both sides of the story and I know that you disagree with that.

You are wrong; I do not disagree with that. See above



JW

But that's not what I meant.  

Well then express yourself clearer so I can see what you really mean.




JW

That JWs prefer echo chambers. Because anything outside of what they believe is considered wrong to them.

Also, I looked up something that I had read before, but I'm guessing that you will not accept it because it doesn't convey a story of how someone LGBTQ became a JW and lived happily ever after, which is only how the Watchtower portrays LGBTQ stories:

When we overcome temptation, like the thought of stealing or viewing pornography, we can feel proud that we overcome it and have Jehovah’s favour. But despite not actually engaging in homosexual activity, just because we are gay, we are something that Jehovah apparently detests. It is such a struggle because we know (as many have said to me) we are not considered as normal and have to wait for Jehovah to fix us in paradise.

Can you imagine what this does to young men in the organization? Saying that being gay is not normal and we have to be fixed, especially when to us our feelings are completely normal and natural to us. It is not a learned habit or something you can overcome. Many times I have sat through meetings and the topic of homosexuality or homosexuals have come up and I cringe at what I’m hearing and I have to get up to go to the toilet just to stop hearing it, because I don’t want to be reminded how being gay is wrong and how gay people will be destroyed at Armageddon. Yes, I know it only refers to those who are practising homosexuals, but knowing how God hates homosexuals and knowing that I am one and can’t fix that is mentally debilitating.