Understanding the Christian View of Trans People

[Skeptical]

I've enjoyed many of the X-Men movies and one character who I particularly thought was interesting was Kitty Pryde played by Ellen Page.



However, I was completely surprised when I found out that Ellen transitioned into Elliot Page fairly recently in the year 2020. Also, I recently read an article about his past gender dysphoria.

Thinking back to when he was much younger, prior to coming out as transgender, the 36-year-old actor recalled the discomfort that came with his changing body. “My body started to change and clothes sat on me differently,” Page added. “And all of that just was, really was the beginning of really sort of disconnecting from myself and feeling a degree of discomfort that was very erosive and damaging.”

Elliot Page on How His Acting Career Impacted His Gender Dysphoria

Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of distress or discomfort because of the difference between a person’s gender (assigned at birth) and their gender identity. This applies to both males who are assigned a female gender at birth and females who were assigned the male gender at birth. People with gender dysphoria are normally transgender...

Dysphoria vs. Dysmorphia

Also, I had always wondered about this and wanted to ask Christians and JWs about this topic. Plus, years ago when I Bible studied with JWs and even went to some of their meetings at one of their Kingdom Halls, I remember seeing a man dressed up as a woman in the audience and standing up and signing JW Kingdom songs along with the rest of JWs, but I thought to myself that he or she must really be trying to change coming to the Kingdom Hall dressed like that.

Therefore, I wanted to ask Christians and JWs: Do trans members ever really change and stop being trans? Also, I am aware of the Bible verses that Christians and JWs use to condemn trans people such as Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14–15, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 where Young's Literal Translation renders that verse as:

have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

where the word "effeminate" is translated from the Greek word μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which means, "(a) soft, (b) of persons: soft, delicate, effeminate. Of uncertain affinity; soft." And I guess it's vice versa for masculine women. However, I would like to know other than the Bible saying don't be like this or don't be like that, do Christians or JWs ever wonder about why a person has cross gender identification in the first place? Because it's difficult for me to imagine that a little child who feels this way is being sinister and is trying to sin against God. Because to me, there always seemed to be a lot more to it such as how their brains function. Plus, it seem as if they're being blamed for something that they have no control over:

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

[Skeptical]

I think we are made a certain way and have resented that from the beginning and want to make ourselves in our own image. Deeply spiritual really.

Oh, really? And scripture please?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #21]

Genesis 1
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Genesis 5:2

2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.

[Skeptical]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #21]

Genesis 1
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Genesis 5:2

2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.

Sorry, but I didn't see where human resentment was mentioned.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #23]

Genesis 4

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

[boatsnguitars]

I've enjoyed many of the X-Men movies and one character who I particularly thought was interesting was Kitty Pryde played by Ellen Page.



However, I was completely surprised when I found out that Ellen transitioned into Elliot Page fairly recently in the year 2020. Also, I recently read an article about his past gender dysphoria.

Thinking back to when he was much younger, prior to coming out as transgender, the 36-year-old actor recalled the discomfort that came with his changing body. “My body started to change and clothes sat on me differently,” Page added. “And all of that just was, really was the beginning of really sort of disconnecting from myself and feeling a degree of discomfort that was very erosive and damaging.”

Elliot Page on How His Acting Career Impacted His Gender Dysphoria

Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of distress or discomfort because of the difference between a person’s gender (assigned at birth) and their gender identity. This applies to both males who are assigned a female gender at birth and females who were assigned the male gender at birth. People with gender dysphoria are normally transgender...

Dysphoria vs. Dysmorphia

Also, I had always wondered about this and wanted to ask Christians and JWs about this topic. Plus, years ago when I Bible studied with JWs and even went to some of their meetings at one of their Kingdom Halls, I remember seeing a man dressed up as a woman in the audience and standing up and signing JW Kingdom songs along with the rest of JWs, but I thought to myself that he or she must really be trying to change coming to the Kingdom Hall dressed like that.

Therefore, I wanted to ask Christians and JWs: Do trans members ever really change and stop being trans? Also, I am aware of the Bible verses that Christians and JWs use to condemn trans people such as Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14–15, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 where Young's Literal Translation renders that verse as:

have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

where the word "effeminate" is translated from the Greek word μαλακοὶ (malakoi), which means, "(a) soft, (b) of persons: soft, delicate, effeminate. Of uncertain affinity; soft." And I guess it's vice versa for masculine women. However, I would like to know other than the Bible saying don't be like this or don't be like that, do Christians or JWs ever wonder about why a person has cross gender identification in the first place? Because it's difficult for me to imagine that a little child who feels this way is being sinister and is trying to sin against God. Because to me, there always seemed to be a lot more to it such as how their brains function. Plus, it seem as if they're being blamed for something that they have no control over:

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to findings to be presented in Barcelona, at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018. These findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Bold to ask Christians their opinion on sexuality, morality and other issues. Remember, they're the ones throughout history who have supported slavery, spousal abuse, banning blacks, women and gays in the military, banning women from speaking in the Church, women voting, women owning property, women having rights at all (remember, if you got raped as a woman, you'd be executed, not the rapist). Christians are the ones who upheld child labor for as long as possible, etc.

Just look at how Christians are very quick to condemn Liberalism.

So, you're asking a group of people who unquestionably accept the moral values of ancient sheep herders what they feel about a Liberal issue? Brave!

Today, Moderate Christians are the heretics of just a few generations ago - as Liberalism proves to be a better Ideology. There are few Christians today who would accept the world as Jesus saw it - slavery alone, but also the treatment of women. Imagine Jesus on Fox News saying "Slaves, obey your masters" - he'd be run out of town. Well, maybe not from the Fox News/Trump crowd....

It's a common saying, "Most Christians are more moral than their God - thank God they are bad Christians."

Also, not for nothing, Christians have a very repressive concept of sexuality, so having them weigh in on sexual issues is always rich. They will blame the victim/person for being evil long before they accept there are legitimate psychological/physiological issues in some people. Like rape: they will blame the victim long before they accept the horrible psychological and physical toll it has on the victim. They will blame the Black guy for robbing a store and will blame the store owner for being sinful - hence the reason he was stolen from - rather than the underlying social illness that forced a man to steal bread for his family. So, you will see them judging the Trans people for their sinful natures long before they respond in a way that is remotely humane - which is why the Church continues to repel so many people, only to attract the hardliners and fundamentalists.

[Skeptical]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #23]

Genesis 4

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Why didn't you include my post #23?

[Skeptical]

Bold to ask Christians their opinion on sexuality, morality and other issues. Remember, they're the ones throughout history who have supported slavery, spousal abuse, banning blacks, women and gays in the military, banning women from speaking in the Church, women voting, women owning property, women having rights at all (remember, if you got raped as a woman, you'd be executed, not the rapist). Christians are the ones who upheld child labor for as long as possible, etc.

Just look at how Christians are very quick to condemn Liberalism.

So, you're asking a group of people who unquestionably accept the moral values of ancient sheep herders what they feel about a Liberal issue? Brave!

Today, Moderate Christians are the heretics of just a few generations ago - as Liberalism proves to be a better Ideology. There are few Christians today who would accept the world as Jesus saw it - slavery alone, but also the treatment of women. Imagine Jesus on Fox News saying "Slaves, obey your masters" - he'd be run out of town. Well, maybe not from the Fox News/Trump crowd....

It's a common saying, "Most Christians are more moral than their God - thank God they are bad Christians."

Also, not for nothing, Christians have a very repressive concept of sexuality, so having them weigh in on sexual issues is always rich. They will blame the victim/person for being evil long before they accept there are legitimate psychological/physiological issues in some people. Like rape: they will blame the victim long before they accept the horrible psychological and physical toll it has on the victim. They will blame the Black guy for robbing a store and will blame the store owner for being sinful - hence the reason he was stolen from - rather than the underlying social illness that forced a man to steal bread for his family. So, you will see them judging the Trans people for their sinful natures long before they respond in a way that is remotely humane - which is why the Church continues to repel so many people, only to attract the hardliners and fundamentalists.

Actually, I just wanted a debate about it and that's why I asked this in this forum. But I guess I just have a friendly and respectful style.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #26]

Cain killed Abel because he can't kill God and he resents God.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #26]

Cain killed Abel because he can't kill God and he resents God.

How do you feel this is relevant?

Why don't you accept Allah? Do you hate Allah?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Skeptical in post #26]

Cain killed Abel because he can't kill God and he resents God.

How do you feel this is relevant?

Why don't you accept Allah? Do you hate Allah?

Of course I hate Allah. I hate what God hates.