God's Need for Loyalty?

[Skeptical]

I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure? Inquiring minds want to know.

[1213]

I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure?

I have understood loyalty to God means we keep His commandments that are basically in love your neighbor as yourself. I believe God wants that, not for him, but for us, for that we would not do evil things to each other.

[2timothy316]

Since the beginning the majority of mankind has not been loyal to God...
If we look at mankind's history, on a scale from 1-10 how would you rate mankind's ruling over itself and treatment of the planet we live on?
Is loyalty for His benefit or for ours? If our planet dies and we die, He loses nothing, we lose everything.
“I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself.”​—ISAIAH 48:17.

[Miles]

Since the beginning the majority of mankind has not been loyal to God...

And with good reason. Who would be loyal to a god who lays the mistake of two individuals on all of humanity that follows? Who would be loyal to a god who condones the ownership of humans by other humans. Who would be loyal to a god who makes homosexuals, but doesn't allow them to express their love for one another? A nice guy worthy of loyalty? Hardly!

If we look at mankind's history, on a scale from 1-10 how would you rate mankind's ruling over itself and treatment of the planet we live on?

Considering the temperament god has infused humanity with; jealousy, hatred, anger, resentment, envy, spite, suspicion, selfishness, egotism, etc. etc. I think mankind's ruling over itself and treatment of the planet we live on is as good as could be expected. So I give it a 10.

Is loyalty for His benefit or for ours? If our planet dies and we die, He loses nothing, we lose everything.
“I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself.”​—ISAIAH 48:17.

In as much as any loyalty to him has never come without unreasonable conditionals I don't see any benefit to us at all. So I agree, He loses nothing, we lose everything, which has pretty much been the setup from the outset. And, there's no "if" about the outcome. Humanity will eventually flicker out and Earth will be engulfed by the Sun. No more us guys and no more Earth, just god and his flittering, half clothed angels, I guess.

..............................................

,

[Wootah]

I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure? Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't see any evidence of Adam and Eve being tested for loyalty. I can see that as part of it but it is more a test of whether they will be truthful and stand for what is right. Now that is what God values and then yes you could argue it is a test of loyalty but if you and I both stand for truth and mercy and justice then I would say you are loyal to me and me to you but it is a loyalty of us both standing strong not some sort of subservient loyalty.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Wootah in post #5]
It seems they were being tested on what they would do with their freedom of choice. Obey and live or rebel and die. God doesn't need their loyalty but they needed to be loyal to the One that gave them life and all the good things they had as He had already shown His loyalty to them by they good things they already had, including an entire planet.

[Miles]

[Replying to Wootah in post #5]
It seems they were being tested on what they would do with their freedom of choice. Obey and live or rebel and die. God doesn't need their loyalty but they needed to be loyal to the One that gave them life and all the good things they had as He had already shown His loyalty to them by they good things they already had, including an entire planet.

"They needed to be loyal to the One that gave them life" because _______________fill in the blank_____________________ .

.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #5]
It seems they were being tested on what they would do with their freedom of choice. Obey and live or rebel and die. God doesn't need their loyalty but they needed to be loyal to the One that gave them life and all the good things they had as He had already shown His loyalty to them by they good things they already had, including an entire planet.

I see it more as God testing if we are the same or not. Not loyalty per se, but will you look after the garden I have given you or not?

I am not trying to disagree with the element of loyalty but it is more about whether we are going to be the same on this issue of evil or not.

Maybe I am fussing about nothing. I guess we can be loyal to a mafia boss and stand with them but to me that would be wrong. Loyalty isn't purely the point.

[Skeptical]

I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure?

I have understood loyalty to God means we keep His commandments that are basically in love your neighbor as yourself. I believe God wants that, not for him, but for us, for that we would not do evil things to each other.

But that's not what Genesis 2:17 says:

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Therefore, I'm not seeing how you are getting all that from that verse.

[Skeptical]

Since the beginning the majority of mankind has not been loyal to God...
If we look at mankind's history, on a scale from 1-10 how would you rate mankind's ruling over itself and treatment of the planet we live on?
Is loyalty for His benefit or for ours? If our planet dies and we die, He loses nothing, we lose everything.
“I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself.”​—ISAIAH 48:17.

Well, to take a page from the poster Jehovah's Witness' playbook: Sorry, 2timothy316, but that's a...