God's Need for Loyalty?

[Skeptical]

I know that it has been argued and debated that God had to test Adam and Eve in order to see if they were loyal to him or not, but could the human race have gotten along alright if God didn't have the need to know what their loyalty was? Because it still hasn't been adequately explained as to why God needed to be sure of the first human pair's loyalty. However, it has only been dogmatically said that this is what God wanted. Therefore, could humankind had still been successful without a test of loyalty to God, or is this something that God needed to make himself feel more secure? Inquiring minds want to know.

[JehovahsWitness]

No need to speculate because the reason is that Adam and Eve would not have known on their own about the law {snip} ...

I was not offering to speculate about how they learnt of the law. You asked me ....

...why did God decide to give them the edict of the tree of knowledge?

JW

[Skeptical]

Without any incentive?

JAMES 1: 14, 15

“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”

So are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3? Because James 1:14-16 could mean (and obviously does) that Eve's desire was because of what the serpent had tempted her with, according to Genesis 3:6:

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise; she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

And the Hebrew word that represents 'when she saw' is Ra'ah:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/interli ... +3:6&t=kjv

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicon ... /raah.html

4. (Hiphil)

• 1. to cause to see, show

• 2. to cause to look intently at, behold, cause to gaze a

And where JWs translate as "consequently."

And I guess that according to Matthew 4:1-12:

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Jesus Begins to Preach
12 When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he withdrew to Galilee

God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own... And as we know, God is on a timetable.

[JehovahsWitness]

Without any incentive?

JAMES 1: 14, 15

“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”

So are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3?

No.


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[JehovahsWitness]

God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own...

Where did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"



J W

[Skeptical]

No need to speculate because the reason is that Adam and Eve would not have known on their own about the law {snip} ...

I was not offering to speculate about how they learnt of the law. You asked me ....

...why did God decide to give them the edict of the tree of knowledge?

JW

So, now you're saying that Adam and Eve were mind readers? And perhaps even had precognition where they had foreseen that God would give them a law about the tree of knowledge and therefore, already knew on their own that disobeying that law would be what would get them killed? However, apparently God didn't know that they already knew, and thus is why he gave them the law of the tree of knowledge. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.

[Skeptical]

Without any incentive?

JAMES 1: 14, 15

“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”

So are you saying that James 1:14-15 contradicts 2 Corinthians 11:3?

No.

So, is that all? Just no?

[Skeptical]

God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own...

Where did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"



J W

Dude, I almost belted out a big yawn. Because it sounds like you are not keeping up. However, you are free to read my post again and see if you are able to get the real meaning of what I said.

[Skeptical]

God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own...

Where did you read that in the bible? I know of no scripture that says "God's spirit must have hurried Jesus along because it may have taken Jesus too much time to have been tempted on his own"



J W

Dude, I almost belted out a big yawn. Because it sounds like you are not keeping up. However, you are free to read my post again and see if you are able to get the real meaning of what I said.

Or maybe you don't understand sarcasm. smh

[JehovahsWitness]

So, now you're saying that Adam and Eve were mind readers?

No, that is not what I am saying.

And perhaps even had precognition where they had foreseen that God would give them a law about the tree of knowledge and therefore, already knew on their own that disobeying that law would be what would get them killed?

No, I never said that.

However, apparently God didn't know that they already knew, and why thus is why he gave them the law of the tree of knowledge. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.

Well I can categorically confirm that is not what I am saying.



JW

[Skeptical]

So, now you're saying that Adam and Eve were mind readers?

No, that is not what I am saying.

And perhaps even had precognition where they had foreseen that God would give them a law about the tree of knowledge and therefore, already knew on their own that disobeying that law would be what would get them killed?

No, I never said that.

However, apparently God didn't know that they already knew, and why thus is why he gave them the law of the tree of knowledge. Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.

Well I can categorically confirm that is not what I am saying.



JW

So, what are you saying? That only JWs are right and everyone else is wrong? And that no matter what you say and no matter how you reason and no matter what scriptures that you use, JWs are still always right just because?