Salvation Uncertainty

[JoeMama]

Mark and Luke offer incomplete instructions for achieving salvation:

Believe and Be Baptized
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved . (Mark 16:16)

Give Your Money to the Poor
Sell everything you have and give to the poor. (Luke 18:18-22)

Summary:

1. Mark says be baptized.
Luke says nothing about baptism.
Is baptism necessary, or not?
Did Luke think that everyone will have read what Mark said, so he (Luke) didn't have to bother to mention baptism?

2. Luke says sell all your possessions.
Mark says nothing about selling possessions.
Sell, or not?
Did Mark think that all readers would know that selling is necessary, because they would have read Luke's verse?

3. Luke says obey the commandments.
Mark says nothing about the commandments.
Obey, or not?

[TRANSPONDER]

Putting on my increasingly baggy Theist Hat, I have that idea that salvation is obtained (though like answering prayer, there is no actual guarantee) through Jesusfaith. No other way; no other thing. Deeds, giving money to the poor, forgiving your enemies, will get you nothing. What it will do is prevent you losing salvation by not being good enough. The name of the game is in being Good so as not to slip into being a sinner despite having escaped sin through Jesus.

This is where the fun starts Are you Good enough? Did this bit of roadrage displease God? Was that bit of gluttony a sin? Doubting? Coveting? Storing up treasure in heaven instead of giving it all to the church..I mean 'the poor'? "To stay in the same place, one must run at least twice as fast" says the Red queen.

Deconvert stories have told of their sweating terror at not being Good enough. The guilt feelings at coveting your neighbour's car, wife or Ass must mean you'd annoyed God. Those doubts about whether the snake walked or Balam's Ass talked ..."A slip like that can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by" says Linus.

Gaining the ticket to salvation is easy; keeping it valid is hard.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't think anyone can read the minds of writers that died many thousands of years ago. All we can do is analyse what they wrote. The question what Mark thought cannot be answered with any certainty by anyone without mind reading capacities.

Is baptism necessary, or not?

If we take a wholistic approach to the Bible, I would say that Baptism is a requirement for Christians.

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit - JESUS CHRIST

[JehovahsWitness]

Mark says nothing about selling possessions. Sell, or not?

There is no reason to presume that Jesus recorded instruction for one man to sell his possessions was a general rule for all Christians.

[1213]

...
Give Your Money to the Poor
Sell everything you have and give to the poor. (Luke 18:18-22)
....

That is bewildering, why do you think Luke 18:18-22 is about salvation? I don't think it says salvation depends on giving money.

[Tcg]

[Replying to JoeMama in post #1]

You'd think that one thing the Bible would state clearly is the means to obtain eternal life. It is clear from what you've quoted that the Bible doesn't do that and you haven't even added in Paul's approach which is different from what the authors of Mark and Luke (whoever they were) wrote. As is the case with so much in the Bible, the user must pick the version that appeals to them. Odd how dogmatic some can become over the choice they make ignoring the fact that the Bible isn't even close to making this choice clear.


Tcg

[JoeMama]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]

Re: Salvation Uncertainty
Post #3
Unread post by JehovahsWitness » Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:17 am

JW wrote:
I don't think anyone can read the minds of writers that died many thousands of years ago. All we can do is analyze what they wrote. The question what Mark thought cannot be answered with any certainty by anyone without mind reading capacities.

Joe Mama comments: God wants his children to have a perfect knowledge of the things they need to do to gain salvation, isn't that true? If so, then the fact that the Bible doesn't make clear what Mark's thinking was is evidence that the Bible is the work of fallible men, not an omniscient, omnipotent god.

[JehovahsWitness]

God wants his children to have a perfect knowledge of the things they need to do to gain salvation, isn't that true? ...

Can you show me a scripture that says knowing what the writer Mark was thinking is something we need to know to gain salvation? I know if no such scripture.

[JoeMama]

Mark says nothing about selling possessions. Sell, or not?

There is no reason to presume that Jesus recorded instruction for one man to sell his possessions was a general rule for all Christians.

Luke also said to that man that he should obey the commandments. Isn't that "a general rule for all Christians"?

[JoeMama]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]
I cannot show you that verse, but I can ask if you believe that God wanted the Bible writers to make as clear as possible what his children need to do to gain salvation?

Do you believe that?