Fear God alone

[Wootah]

One of things all people but I presume Christians actually try to do it is to fear God and not fear other things.

examples from: https://www.openbible.info/topics/fear_of_the_lord

Proverbs 1:7 ESV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Deuteronomy 10:12 ESV
“And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Psalm 23:4 ESV
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Now here are some examples saying to not fear man https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Do-Not-Fear-Men

Psalm 118:6 ESV
The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?

1 Peter 2:17 ESV
Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Proverbs 29:25 ESV / 399 helpful votes
The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe.

I like 1 Peter 2 because it says clearly to honour the emperor but not fear the emperor and we can apply that to all kings and rulers.

The general point is that Christians are only meant to fear God and not fear man (or other things pretending to be God or angels). On angels, angels say fear not quite often. I think this is partly due to the fact they are probably terrifying but also because they do not want us to worship them. Only fear God.

Do you agree?

If you do agree can you explain this verse in the Bible?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm

New International Version
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

New Living Translation
And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

English Standard Version
submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
Be submitting yourselves to one another in reverence of Christ:

King James Bible
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

New King James Version
submitting to one another in the fear of God.

New American Standard Bible
and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1995
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1977
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Legacy Standard Bible
and being subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Amplified Bible
being subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

American Standard Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Be subject to one another in the love of The Messiah.

Contemporary English Version
Honor Christ and put others first.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Being subject one to another, in the fear of Christ.

English Revised Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Place yourselves under each other's authority out of respect for Christ.

Good News Translation
Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ.

International Standard Version
and you will submit to one another out of reverence for the Messiah.

Literal Standard Version
subjecting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

Majority Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

I notice that the Greek word is phobos (the word for fear, phobia) so translations using reverence are meaning well but are not accurate. Similar to how the word doulos means slave but gets translated servant a lot .

Question: If we are only meant to fear God, why does the Bible say to fear Christ?

Is this evidence that Christ is God and it is good to fear Christ or .... over to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

The bible does not reserve proper fear to God alone, indeed Christians are told ....

ROMANS 13:7

Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear;+ to the one who calls for honor, such honor

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1 PETER 2 :18

Let servants be in subjection to their masters with all due fear ...

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[JehovahsWitness]

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Question: If we are only meant to fear God, why does the Bible say to fear Christ?

The bible does not say we must only fear God and never anybody else (see post #2 above) so the question is based on an unscriptural premise.

Is this evidence that Christ is God and it is good to fear Christ....

No

[2timothy316]

Just based on these posts, it seems the debate is, 'What does it mean to fear'?

[Wootah]

Just based on these posts, it seems the debate is, 'What does it mean to fear'?

Yes, I think so. I think I was too strict on its meaning in my post which probably does explain the variety of translations. Fear and reverence and respect are valid.

I think it is clear from the bible that we should not fear man or angel or the devil but only fear God.

Matthew 10:27-29
English Standard Version
27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

So if we look at Romans 13:7 and 1 Peter 2:18 it can't mean to fear in the sense I am proposing. Otherwise, it would be a contradiction.

Romans 13 is about submission to authorities. We submit to them because it is the right thing to do. Verses 6 and 7 are about repaying what we owe, in terms of money or respect. I would even argue that fearing righteous authorities is appropriate because they can lock us up and fearing unrighteous authority is appropriate because they can lock us up! But we are not to fear them in the sense of putting their words above Gods. A righteous authority would not do that and we are to stand up to unrighteous authority even if we fear them. I think 1 Peter 2 is explainable in the same way.

I would go so far as to say that both sections of the Bible are addressing the question of 'if Jesus is Lord why do I have to submit to other authorities at all?'.
1 Peter 2:13 says that we submit 'for the Lord's sake to every human institution' suggests that our submission to authority is because Jesus tells us to and the reason why is v15 'that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people'. It is a purpose-driven submission that advances the kingdom of Jesus.

Both examples are in relation to men whom we should not fear more than God.

So does my use of Ephesians 5:21 fear Christ provide a slam dunk proof Jesus is God?

Ephesians 5:1 Follow God's example ... what example? why Jesus's example.

Ephesians 2 - 20: now live in all ways that are holy

Interestingly in Romans 13:7 and 1 Peter 2:18 it talks about fear of leaders/masters and in Ephesians 5:21 we are to submit to one another out of fear of Christ, fear of our shared master Christ.

So here is where I am at. Not quite a slam dunk but we should only fear God and not man. We are told to fear Christ. We are also told to fear authority by our authority Jesus for the sake of the gospel. But I can only have one authority God so either Jesus is God or I have to throw out Jesus.

[2timothy316]

Just based on these posts, it seems the debate is, 'What does it mean to fear'?

Yes, I think so. I think I was too strict on its meaning in my post which probably does explain the variety of translations. Fear and reverence and respect are valid.

I think it is clear from the bible that we should not fear man or angel or the devil but only fear God.

Matthew 10:27-29
English Standard Version
27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

So if we look at Romans 13:7 and 1 Peter 2:18 it can't mean to fear in the sense I am proposing. Otherwise, it would be a contradiction.

Romans 13 is about submission to authorities. We submit to them because it is the right thing to do. Verses 6 and 7 are about repaying what we owe, in terms of money or respect. I would even argue that fearing righteous authorities is appropriate because they can lock us up and fearing unrighteous authority is appropriate because they can lock us up! But we are not to fear them in the sense of putting their words above Gods. A righteous authority would not do that and we are to stand up to unrighteous authority even if we fear them. I think 1 Peter 2 is explainable in the same way.

I would go so far as to say that both sections of the Bible are addressing the question of 'if Jesus is Lord why do I have to submit to other authorities at all?'.
1 Peter 2:13 says that we submit 'for the Lord's sake to every human institution' suggests that our submission to authority is because Jesus tells us to and the reason why is v15 'that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people'. It is a purpose-driven submission that advances the kingdom of Jesus.

Both examples are in relation to men whom we should not fear more than God.

So does my use of Ephesians 5:21 fear Christ provide a slam dunk proof Jesus is God?

Ephesians 5:1 Follow God's example ... what example? why Jesus's example.

Ephesians 2 - 20: now live in all ways that are holy

Interestingly in Romans 13:7 and 1 Peter 2:18 it talks about fear of leaders/masters and in Ephesians 5:21 we are to submit to one another out of fear of Christ, fear of our shared master Christ.

So here is where I am at. Not quite a slam dunk but we should only fear God and not man. We are told to fear Christ. We are also told to fear authority by our authority Jesus for the sake of the gospel. But I can only have one authority God so either Jesus is God or I have to throw out Jesus.

Jesus had Godly fear. (Hebrews 5:7) Those that wish to serve Jehovah should follow Jesus' example. That being said, apparently it doesn't mean Jehovah is the only one feared, honored or held in high reverence. Jesus is God's appointed king and has also given all judgement of all mankind to His Son. (Re 19:13-15) In that respect Jesus should be revered. Jesus has been given authority over Heaven and earth by Jehovah. (Matthew 28:18-20) Does that mean we can't fear Jehovah anymore? That doesn't seem the case since Jesus told us to fear Him. Does that mean we can only have one authority? Apparently not. Honoring Jesus' position honors Jehovah's choice in the one whom He sent. (John 5:23)

So it seems that your dilemma is not so much about just fear but Godly fear. Jesus shouldn't be given Godly fear and nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus should be given Godly fear. Jesus can't be Almighty God because then Hebrews 5:7 means Jesus feared himself...that makes no sense.

[1213]

...
I notice that the Greek word is phobos (the word for fear, phobia) so translations using reverence are meaning well but are not accurate. Similar to how the word doulos means slave but gets translated servant a lot .

Question: If we are only meant to fear God, why does the Bible say to fear Christ?

Is this evidence that Christ is God and it is good to fear Christ or .... over to you.

I noticed that the word "Christ" is "theos", which means God. But, I think it would be good to understand also this:

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has punishment; and the one fearing has not been perfected in love.
1 John 4:18

I think fear of God can be a good start, but, when you know God, why would you fear Him?

I think "reverence", deep respect for God, is better translation for the word "phobos" in that, for example because of the 1 John 4:18.

[Wootah]

[Replying to 1213 in post #7]

Beginning of wisdom is fear of God. The number one mistake non Christians make is to not fear God and what he will do to them.

If you are a Christian you have assurance.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]
There is another fear that we have not talked about and that is fear of disappointing Jehovah God. This is another thing that those that don't believe in God do not care about and will hinder Godly wisdom.

Example: A child brings home an F on their report card in a subject that the child knows well. When the child gets home the parents see the report card and don't punish the child but they do tell them how sad disappointed they are in their performance on a subject they know their child understands. Then explains the impact that their grades have on their future.

The child has two basic whys to react.
1. Resolve to do better on their grades, because they are in fear of hurting their parents feelings again and they understand that having good or bad grades has a direct impact on their future. The child is wiser now.
2. They do not fear hurting their parents feelings. They also deny their parents' counsel that grades have an impact on their future. The child has missed out on gaining wisdom.

Thus, it is not fearing what God will do to them, but fear bringing sadness to God's heart and also the fear not doing what He says could have a negative impact on their quality of life in the future. Those that don't believe in God, first don't think God exists, so there is no reason to care about His feelings. Second, they feel their only future is to grow old and die, if something doesn't kill them first. So, there is no hope of a future to be had. Gaining wisdom is rather futile if one just dies in a few decades.

[Miles]

[Replying to Wootah in post #8]
There is another fear that we have not talked about and that is fear of disappointing Jehovah God. This is another thing that those that don't believe in God do not care about and will hinder Godly wisdom.

So what happens to you if you disappoint god?

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