Fear God alone

[Wootah]

One of things all people but I presume Christians actually try to do it is to fear God and not fear other things.

examples from: https://www.openbible.info/topics/fear_of_the_lord

Proverbs 1:7 ESV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Deuteronomy 10:12 ESV
“And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Psalm 23:4 ESV
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Now here are some examples saying to not fear man https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Do-Not-Fear-Men

Psalm 118:6 ESV
The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?

1 Peter 2:17 ESV
Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Proverbs 29:25 ESV / 399 helpful votes
The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe.

I like 1 Peter 2 because it says clearly to honour the emperor but not fear the emperor and we can apply that to all kings and rulers.

The general point is that Christians are only meant to fear God and not fear man (or other things pretending to be God or angels). On angels, angels say fear not quite often. I think this is partly due to the fact they are probably terrifying but also because they do not want us to worship them. Only fear God.

Do you agree?

If you do agree can you explain this verse in the Bible?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm

New International Version
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

New Living Translation
And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

English Standard Version
submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
Be submitting yourselves to one another in reverence of Christ:

King James Bible
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

New King James Version
submitting to one another in the fear of God.

New American Standard Bible
and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1995
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1977
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Legacy Standard Bible
and being subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Amplified Bible
being subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

American Standard Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Be subject to one another in the love of The Messiah.

Contemporary English Version
Honor Christ and put others first.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Being subject one to another, in the fear of Christ.

English Revised Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Place yourselves under each other's authority out of respect for Christ.

Good News Translation
Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ.

International Standard Version
and you will submit to one another out of reverence for the Messiah.

Literal Standard Version
subjecting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

Majority Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

I notice that the Greek word is phobos (the word for fear, phobia) so translations using reverence are meaning well but are not accurate. Similar to how the word doulos means slave but gets translated servant a lot .

Question: If we are only meant to fear God, why does the Bible say to fear Christ?

Is this evidence that Christ is God and it is good to fear Christ or .... over to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

• The trial was entirely illegal and the process that lead to conviction was compromised

Prove it...

I already have , did you not read my earlier post? -> viewtopic.php?p=1083570#p1083570

Also see - English Explanation of Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:1 by Dr. Joshua Kulp, PhD [ Schechter Institute of Jewish Studies ]
https://www.famous-trials.com/jesustrial/1054-sanhedrin

Jewish Texts : https://www.sefaria.org/texts

[Miles]

“You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

• The words in red do not violate any law in the MOSAIC law code.

According to you...

No, According to Hebrew scripture. There exists no passage in the TORAH that the above violates. That is not an opinion it is a verifiable FACT. If you believe that is not true , produce the chapter and verse please.

My mistake for mixing other laws administered by the Sanhedrin with the Mosaic law code.

• Jesus was wrongly convicted of blasphemy

Again, according to you. An opinion you're certainly welcome to hold, but no more meaningful than anyone else's.

All opinions are not equal. Any opinion that Jesus violated a law WITHOUT producing the law in question, is obviously without merit (see above). One does not have to be a legal expert to know that one cannot be rightly convicted of a violating a law that does not apply.

A simple lack of mentioning a law certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't apply.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

My mistake for mixing other laws administered by the Sanhedrin with the Mosaic law code.

Are you suggesting Jesus violated the Mishnah [Sanhedrin] law rather than the Mosaic law? If so, produce the law you claim he violated.

Chapter and verse please.

A simple lack of mentioning a law certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't apply.

So produce the law and prove it exists. See above.

[Miles]

• The trial was entirely illegal and the process that lead to conviction was compromised

Prove it...

I already have , did you not read my earlier post? -> viewtopic.php?p=1083570#p1083570

I did, and too much conjecture, unsupported opinion, and questionable conclusions to consider it worthwhile. Sorry

.

[JehovahsWitness]

• The trial was entirely illegal and the process that lead to conviction was compromised

Prove it...

I already have , did you not read my earlier post? -> viewtopic.php?p=1083570#p1083570

I did, and too much conjecture, unsupported opinion, and questionable conclusions to consider it worthwhile.

.

References highlighted below.

[JehovahsWitness]

The night trial was most certainly was entirely illegal on multiple counts and proper court procedure was not respected.


WAS THE NIGHT TRIAL AGAINST JESUS LEGAL?

• Jesus was arrested without charge - See John 18:20, 21¤

• The crime of BLASPHEMY consists only of uttering the name of God and cursing it [Mishnah Sanhedrin 7.5]

• The Mishnah requires a capital trial to be held in the daytime [Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.1].

• In cases of capital crime, no trial could be start on a Friday or the day preceding a national holiday

• No guilty verdict can be issued on the same day as a trial [Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.1]

• The court itself was not permitted to instigate or formulated the charges [Ancient Jewish History: The Sanhedrin by Shira Schoenberghttps://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-sanhedrin]

• Trials should begin with witnesses for the accused [Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.1]

• Two witnesses who were in full agreement were required [Deut 19:15]

• The accused was not to be put under oath preceeding his testimony

• The accused could not be convicted on his own testimony or confession alone - Maimonides Judges 14, Sanhedrin ch. 18, para. 6, at 52-53

• Proper voting procedure was not respected

• unanimous verdict of guilt should have lead to an immediate acquittal Ephraim Glatt- The Unanimous Verdict According to the Talmud: Ancient Law Providing Insight into Modern Legal Theory

• It was illegal for the judges to assault the accused

SOURCES

• English Explanation of Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:1 by Dr. Joshua Kulp, PhD [ Schechter Institute of Jewish Studies ]
  https://www.famous-trials.com/jesustrial/1054-sanhedrin

• Professor Douglas O. Linder- University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law

• Jewish Texts : https://www.sefaria.org/texts

• Jewish Virtual library: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/practice-procedure

LUKE 23:4 New International Version

Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, “I find no basis for a charge against this man.”

¤ Note: “The testimony of an accomplice is accordingly not admissible by Rabbinic law ...” - Criminal Jurisprudence of the Ancient Hebrews, Samuel Mendelsohn 1890, p. 120


FURTHER READING :
https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2014/ ... -of-jesus/
https://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/who-is ... s-illegal/
https://thebiblesays.com/tough-topics/j ... -violated/

To learn more please go to other posts related to
THE TRIAL OF JESUS , THE EXECUTION OF CHRIST and ... MEMORIAL OF CHRIST'S DEATH

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Miles in post #37]

Jesus was set up by the Pharisees with an illegal Kangaroo Court, having liars come forth and say things against him which he never was guilty of. You might read the Bible account once again.

... and you might actually make an argument quoting the Bible and explaining why you make this claim. I happen to agree with you, in part, but you haven't made an argument supported by facts or Bible verses.
In any event, if a man claims to be God wouldn't that be blasphemy? I understand you think Jesus was God,

No, I do NOT believe that Jesus is God! I have to say, that if you had read any of my posts in any of the threads you would know that I have been issuing proof, with many Bible quotes, that he is not God. Please take a look at the thread "Jesus Is Not God."

Interesting! I agree with you that Jesus was not God. Even when I believed in the god of Abraham, I did not believe in the 'Trinity.' You are also correct in one of your alternate assumptions; I have not been reading your posts where you have "issued proof he is not God" and I do not recall reading any posts in that thread (perhaps because I already believe "Jesus Is Not God." Also because I do not usually read any posts in Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma.

[Miles]

My mistake for mixing other laws administered by the Sanhedrin with the Mosaic law code.

Are you suggesting Jesus violated the Mishnah [Sanhedrin] law rather than the Mosaic law?
Chapter and verse please.

What else could it be? Why else would the Sanhedrin say “He is deserving of death!” if he didn't break a law? And what was that law? As Caiaphas declared, it was blasphemy.

Matthew 26:65
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need?

Jesus wanted, no needed, to be found guilty of a capital offense so he could be executed and, in his mind, become the prophesied savior, so he played Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin like a cheap violin.

A simple lack of mentioning a law certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't apply.

So produce the law and prove it exists. See above.

Whether or not I, Miles, can produce the law doesn't make any difference as to its actual existence. So my ability to produce the law or not is immaterial.

.

[boatsnguitars]

Jesus breaks religious rules...

Jesus may indeed have broken religious "rules"*, what there is no record of him ever doing is breaking THE MOSAIC LAW CODE as recorded in the Hebrew bible.

Goal posts moved. Noted.

Plus, I note that your only source is from propaganda material. Also, take the night trial. The leaders felt it was legal - perhaps because of extenuating circumstances. That would be well within their Rights - as they were the ones creating and enforcing the laws in the first place.

America moved terrorists to Cuba to skirt laws - because of extenuating circumstances. Sure, you can argue it's against the law, but that's Law for you - people think seat belt and helmet laws are unlawful.

So, have your little, happy, circle jerk dance as you convince yourself that Jesus was the most innocent man in the world. That's the mythology. And make the Jews out to be the bad people - it's the fashionable thing for Christians to do. And cite your propaganda material as if it's factual - we all expect it. And live in your religious fantasy - it's your Right as a free person.

But don't think your Apologetics are convincing to anyone but yourselves.

[JehovahsWitness]

My mistake for mixing other laws administered by the Sanhedrin with the Mosaic law code.

Are you suggesting Jesus violated the Mishnah [Sanhedrin] law rather than the Mosaic law?
Chapter and verse please.

... Why else would the Sanhedrin say “He is deserving of death!” if he didn't break a law? And what was that law?

That is what I'm asking you; you made the claim, not I.