Why Ought we Worship God?

[boatsnguitars]

I'm assuming one worship that which one respects, but why ought we worship (or respect) God?

What has God done that is worthy of our respect? He (allegedly) created the Universe and Life. Great - but that was His job (according to all religions) in the first place. He would have had to have done that in order for us to worship him in the first place. Had he not, we wouldn't be here to question it.

Plus, it's nothing for an All-Powerful Being to create anything.

So, considering he can do all this and more, why did he create humans to be slightly more intelligent and capable than other Apes (as if we descended from a common ancestor through Evolution) and why all the blood, pain, torture, and evil, with far less joy, happiness and goodness to balance it out? Is this worthy of our respect?

Does he demand respect - like a Mob Boss? "Love me, or else"? That is not worthy of worship.

Every Theist I have ever spoken to believes in a God that I wouldn't worship. It's almost as if their idea of God comes from their imagination and not actual facts about our Universe.

What would Theists say, collectively, that would give someone a reason to worship their God? And, why "ought" it be the case?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #49

I am not trying to box you in, you are boxed in. My point is to simply observe all the religions that have been created - and notice none of them have any unique claim to truth - worse, they all seem to be basically wrong about a great number of things. They certainly can't all be right - so most of them are wrong.
What is left is either things we can't confirm (which may be wrong), or mundane facts about the world that aren't profound or mysterious.

Yet, people worship the God they put at the top of their religious belief. This is worshiping your own creation.

Still hammering away at religions as a substitute for knocking down God?

.....and Stephen Hawking said that philosophy is dead.....

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #49

I am not trying to box you in, you are boxed in. My point is to simply observe all the religions that have been created - and notice none of them have any unique claim to truth - worse, they all seem to be basically wrong about a great number of things. They certainly can't all be right - so most of them are wrong.
What is left is either things we can't confirm (which may be wrong), or mundane facts about the world that aren't profound or mysterious.

Yet, people worship the God they put at the top of their religious belief. This is worshiping your own creation.

Still hammering away at religions as a substitute for knocking down God?

.....and Stephen Hawking said that philosophy is dead.....

It's a legitimate position. You cannot make a sound case for a god, and I know as we've debated Cosmic origins before. But the point is that it's practically pointless as atheists don't care about Deism. or 'Agnostics' as irreligious theists call themselves and which so far as I can glean, you are; you battle like mad for a sorta -god, but are as dismissive as any atheist on the scriptures. atheism sees Deist and irreligious theists as being in the secularist or humanist, at least, camp, but for some reason irreligious theists are some of the most acrid apologist for Kalam - I suppose because without the Bible, they have nothing else.

[Diogenes]

I would expect a true creator of the universe to be calm and confident; above even the issue of confidence. Having made the universe and all its creatures, he would understand us very well and laugh at the idea he needed anything, let alone praise.
....
It's really quite beyond silly and absurd. I have no regrets leaving this nonsense behind 30-40 years ago. The only question I have is "Why did it take so long to drop it?"

I should love to know. I know that Faith (or the "Buy -in") is powerful and once one is in the belief, the entire mental ethos is devoted to maintaining it, so all the apologetics, excuses and fiddles are employed to keep the Faith afloat. In fact I know how it works and I have (in my UFO days) experienced the cult -think that used the same apologetics excuses for Flying Saucers as Religionists do for their apologetics, and the Flying Saucer cult is not infrequently adopted by Bible apologists. Fortunately I still kept my mind open and while keeping the Faith in one part of my head, I could apply reason and critical analysis of the anecdotes and claims with the other brain - cell. In fact that is what I do when I put on my Theist hat.

Indeed! Indoctrination of any kind is hard to overcome. I suppose, like you, I tried to keep my mind open and always had doubts, always questioned, until the burden of belief just became too heavy with absurdity.
[EDIT] The UFO example is apt as well as Flat Earth theorists. I recently read a great book on the subject. It focuses on Flat Earthers, but ties it into conspiracies in general, how they get started and why these nutty, contrafactual obsessions are so difficult for the victims to extract themselves from.

[Purple Knight]

The argument that there can only be one perfect God only begs the question - how could a Perfectly Loving, etc. Being create such a world in which so much suffering needs to exist - when said Being was just fine without any suffering?

We don't know for sure if it never suffered. And the only way to get out of it imo is to say that none of the suffering is real. But I don't think that holds water either. Maybe I'll wake up and laugh about it, but I doubt so. Even if I do wake up and laugh about it, I don't think that necessarily negates what is happening now. Like, I think Roy suffers. In this scenario I think he's a real person (different to each player of course) and I don't buy the idea that each player is only harming himself and fully consenting to the harm so this game is okay.



And you'll fine me defending Christians more often than not because I think it's important to give the creator scenario its absolute best chance. I don't think it's true but if it is, I certainly don't want to bury my head in the sand. I gotta open my eyes and deal with it.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #52

atheism sees Deist and irreligious theists as being in the secularist or humanist, at least, camp, but for some reason irreligious theists are some of the most acrid apologist for Kalam - I suppose because without the Bible, they have nothing else.

What would "irreligious theists" need the Bible for? If atheists need scriptures for a punching bag, that doesn't mean everyone does.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #52

atheism sees Deist and irreligious theists as being in the secularist or humanist, at least, camp, but for some reason irreligious theists are some of the most acrid apologist for Kalam - I suppose because without the Bible, they have nothing else.

What would "irreligious theists" need the Bible for? If atheists need scriptures for a punching bag, that doesn't mean everyone does.

Apart from academic study of an ancient book, they wouldn't need the Bible at all. That's what Deism and irreligious Theism is about - belief in a god, even a creator god - but without any religion, Holy Book or dogma. Just the ID arguments, really. True, Jefferson (18th c Deist and Founding Father) thought that the NT was useful as a moral guide, but I think we can do better now. We really do not need the Bible for anything other than to fill up a space in the Library 'Mythology' section.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #49

I am not trying to box you in, you are boxed in. My point is to simply observe all the religions that have been created - and notice none of them have any unique claim to truth - worse, they all seem to be basically wrong about a great number of things. They certainly can't all be right - so most of them are wrong.
What is left is either things we can't confirm (which may be wrong), or mundane facts about the world that aren't profound or mysterious.

Yet, people worship the God they put at the top of their religious belief. This is worshiping your own creation.

Still hammering away at religions as a substitute for knocking down God?

.....and Stephen Hawking said that philosophy is dead.....

Yet, my point still stands: If everyone has a different concept of God - so obviously many (all?) are wrong or invented - why worship it? How can an honest individual look around the world and see all the different Gods that people have invented and think they alone have the right 'take' on the 'god thing' - and then go one step further and worship their 'take'?

If that's not you, no need to respond - unless you want to defend all those people worshiping their imaginary friend.

[boatsnguitars]

The argument that there can only be one perfect God only begs the question - how could a Perfectly Loving, etc. Being create such a world in which so much suffering needs to exist - when said Being was just fine without any suffering?

We don't know for sure if it never suffered. And the only way to get out of it imo is to say that none of the suffering is real. But I don't think that holds water either. Maybe I'll wake up and laugh about it, but I doubt so. Even if I do wake up and laugh about it, I don't think that necessarily negates what is happening now. Like, I think Roy suffers. In this scenario I think he's a real person (different to each player of course) and I don't buy the idea that each player is only harming himself and fully consenting to the harm so this game is okay.



And you'll fine me defending Christians more often than not because I think it's important to give the creator scenario its absolute best chance. I don't think it's true but if it is, I certainly don't want to bury my head in the sand. I gotta open my eyes and deal with it.

I see what you're saying, to a degree, but I don't see Theism as something that needs support.

First, if true, there is an omnipotent Being out there that can defend itself just fine.
Second, if false, it shouldn't be supported - especially given the harms it causes. (The Goods can be achieved through other means).

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #57

Yet, my point still stands: If everyone has a different concept of God - so obviously many (all?) are wrong or invented - why worship it? How can an honest individual look around the world and see all the different Gods that people have invented and think they alone have the right 'take' on the 'god thing' - and then go one step further and worship their 'take'?

If that's not you, no need to respond - unless you want to defend all those people worshiping their imaginary friend.

As I initially admitted, I'm not delving into the issue of worship.

Beyond that, my point still stands.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #57

Yet, my point still stands: If everyone has a different concept of God - so obviously many (all?) are wrong or invented - why worship it? How can an honest individual look around the world and see all the different Gods that people have invented and think they alone have the right 'take' on the 'god thing' - and then go one step further and worship their 'take'?

If that's not you, no need to respond - unless you want to defend all those people worshiping their imaginary friend.

As I initially admitted, I'm not delving into the issue of worship.

Beyond that, my point still stands.

Worship is the topic of the thread. So your point is irrelevant.