"Worship!" Proves the 'god' of the Bible is not God

[Diogenes]

Credit to Boatsnguitars for Why Ought we Worship God?, this question for debate asks, "Didn't the Bible tell us, in its beginning, that the god it promotes is merely a tribal god, an object of worship rather than a true God that does not need to be worshiped?

The god of the Bible seems to act so very much like a human. He wants to be worshiped and loved and is, he says, jealous and angry... vengeful and vindictive... but "he loves us."

I would expect a true creator of the universe to be calm and confident; above even the issue of confidence. Having made the universe and all its creatures, he would understand us very well and laugh at the idea he needed anything, let alone praise. Why would he need or want validation? I would expect he would love all his creation, every tribe and every person, else why would he create them? Why would he have a "chosen" tribe or family, one above all others?

Instead, the image of the 'god' of the Bible is of one exactly like us with all our issues. 'He' is exactly the kind of 'god' man would invent to be used to reinforce tribal rules and the power of the leaders to control the crowd and make things run smoothly. The 'god' of the Bible resembles a fictitious tool, an implement to keep the unruly in line.

[TRANSPONDER]

But if there is no reward to be gained for worship, prayer or loving God, then what reason is there for doing it?

I think love is the only good reason.

Aside 'love' being no different for the love that humanists have for nature, knowledge and the humans and animals and beans on the earth, as wll as awe for nature from the sub atomic to the supergiants, 'love' of creation and its' maker is the same. No reward offered or expected. Atheists love because we want to, not because some celestial disctator wants us to, and you really agree with it. Just you make the workings of nature an eight armed god with a blue face, or one as man made as that.

You know, or should, that all the gods are man -made, but not the one you believe in. You know the Bible doesn't add up and only denial of science, logic and even the Bible itself can allow Faith that it isn't just an old tome of tall tales to persist.

It is your choice - to go with reason or Faith.

[Wootah]

But if there is no reward to be gained for worship, prayer or loving God, then what reason is there for doing it?

I think love is the only good reason.

I think it is for our benefit. Either slaves to sin or Christ.

[TRANSPONDER]

But if there is no reward to be gained for worship, prayer or loving God, then what reason is there for doing it?

I think love is the only good reason.

I think it is for our benefit. Either slaves to sin or Christ.

So you are saying that worship is a mechanism for escaping being slaves to sin? That makes no sense. Or maybe it does. Worship will not gain salvation, but Jesusfaith will. (Paul in Romans). But sinning can lose the salvation (Paul in Corinthians) so if worship keeps one focussed on Not sinning, then it would avoid slipping back into being the slaves of sin.

Does that sound a plausible theology? Yours sounded more a misunderstanding of Paul, upon which, like it or not, Christianity is based, without any real explanation. Your last line carries little conviction. That it is done to make the worshipper feel deserving and self - justified, we knew; that it is no guarantee that Jesus is the alternate to sin is also known, but heavily disguised with Polemics of piety like claims of charity and peddling the propaganda in colorful brochures, as though that merited praise, to divert attention from Jesusfaith not notably leading to nations historically full of nice guys. You will have to do better than that.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93]

I think you are rejecting the premises.

Everyone worships something in the world. The antidote to that is worshipping something not of the world: God.

Once you bow to God you won't bow to another man or create thing ever again.

No doubt you, like every other atheist on this forum is the exception to the rule and you don't bow down to created things.

But you just love science and nature and socialism and government. It's not bowing down it's an appreciation. Dude Muslims bow to mecca 5 times a day and can't see the mote in their eye. How can I expect you to ....

[1213]

Aside 'love' being no different for the love that humanists have for nature...

It is very likely that you don't know love as I know.

You know, or should, that all the gods are man -made, but not the one you believe in. You know the Bible doesn't add up and only denial of science, logic and even the Bible itself can allow Faith that it isn't just an old tome of tall tales to persist.

It is your choice - to go with reason or Faith.

Yes, and I go with reason, that is why I want to be faithful to God.

But, Bible tells God is love. How could love be man made, if people don't even seem to understand what it means?

The one who does not love has not known God, because God is love.
1 John 4:8

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93]

I think you are rejecting the premises.

Everyone worships something in the world. The antidote to that is worshipping something not of the world: God.

Once you bow to God you won't bow to another man or create thing ever again.

No doubt you, like every other atheist on this forum is the exception to the rule and you don't bow down to created things.

But you just love science and nature and socialism and government. It's not bowing down it's an appreciation. Dude Muslims bow to mecca 5 times a day and can't see the mote in their eye. How can I expect you to ....

I don't call it worship to like discovery and knowledge and also the arts. It is not on par with worship, Christian or Muslim, mainly because it works on evidence, not Faith.

[TRANSPONDER]

Aside 'love' being no different for the love that humanists have for nature...

It is very likely that you don't know love as I know.

You know, or should, that all the gods are man -made, but not the one you believe in. You know the Bible doesn't add up and only denial of science, logic and even the Bible itself can allow Faith that it isn't just an old tome of tall tales to persist.

It is your choice - to go with reason or Faith.

Yes, and I go with reason, that is why I want to be faithful to God.

But, Bible tells God is love. How could love be man made, if people don't even seem to understand what it means?

The one who does not love has not known God, because God is love.
1 John 4:8

"Love" can mean a lot of things and be used in a lot of ways. It is blunderbuss word that lends itself to misuse and equivocation. It is understood on social and biological terms better than the mix of projected self - love, tribalism and (it was been admitted by some) fear and in many religions. This as well as Biblefaith is not 'Reason'. It is maintaining devotion to a cherished Faith in spite of evidence - based reason.

You will dismiss this on Faith, but that doesn't matter. It matters that your argument fails, because what the Bible says about love is irrelevant if the Book is myth, nobody says love is man -made; it is an instinct and , apart from saying that science can give a better explanation, trying to equate something that on evidence is real with something that on evidence is not, is a real cheat.

[1213]

...nobody says love is man -made; it is an instinct...

Then we are not talking about same things. And I don't see why would your sayings be relevant in debate about Christianity.

[TRANSPONDER]

...nobody says love is man -made; it is an instinct...

Then we are not talking about same things. And I don't see why would your sayings be relevant in debate about Christianity.

We are talking about the same thing - you only think it's something else and rejigg it to fit your Biblebased belief. And it is relevant to the subject as much as astronomy showing that the creation is wrong, Egyptology showing that Exodus is probably not true and history showing that one and probably both Nativity stories are not true.

So it is relevant and I can hardly believe that you thought the 'not on topic' gambit would work. What else have you tried? Science dismissal, ignoring what the Bible actually says, accusing me of doing what you do (fiddling the facts/Bible to suit what I believe), your opinion is as good as mine, 'The Bible does not actually say that'. It doesn't make the Bible apologetics case look very credible.