Why Did God Create Atheists?

[Miles]

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There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”

“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”

—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

So, reasonable or not. We atheists exist to set an example to the morally stunted of the world?


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[Mae von H]

Because I’m thoroughly familiar with what He’s already said. And the position describes an extremely evil being worse than the Devil. That’s not Him.

OK, let's end this here. I can't tell if you are a Poe and yanking my chain, or serious. Either way, my time is more valuable to deal with either.

That’s the usual answer when someone has no reasonable answer for their theology. First the ad hominem then the demeaning “you are not worthy” response. I think you’re worthy of my time and I can fully defend every view I present. You won’t get an ad hominem. I don’t need that arrow in my quiver.

For the record, I don't believe you know what God intends, I don't think you know what God has expressed.

I’m sure that is a comforting position. It’s untrue, however. I’m so thoroughly familiar with scripture which tells us what He intends and has expressed, I can quote it without looking up the reference.

I also don't believe God exists, but even if it did exist, I don't believe you are the one to tell me what it thinks.

He is a person, not an inanimate object.

I don't know why you'd feel comfortable claiming you can tell others what God thinks, either.

Because I’m quite literate. I read what He told others He thinks. It’s not rocket science.

[William]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #24]

Then how do you know what I just posted about Theological Determinism wasn't inspired by God?

How do you know that it wasn't?

I don't, but given there is no evidence for a God, I don't need to worry much about it. Show me God exists, then I could put some energy into the issue.

So the question asked by an atheist (Why Did God Create Atheists?) is not something an atheist would wonder about?

Wonder is different from worry.

Both captivate in their own manner, but yes - there is a difference in how each propels the individual down those separate pathways.

[boatsnguitars]

Because I’m thoroughly familiar with what He’s already said. And the position describes an extremely evil being worse than the Devil. That’s not Him.

OK, let's end this here. I can't tell if you are a Poe and yanking my chain, or serious. Either way, my time is more valuable to deal with either.

That’s the usual answer when someone has no reasonable answer for their theology. First the ad hominem then the demeaning “you are not worthy” response. I think you’re worthy of my time and I can fully defend every view I present. You won’t get an ad hominem. I don’t need that arrow in my quiver.

For the record, I don't believe you know what God intends, I don't think you know what God has expressed.

I’m sure that is a comforting position. It’s untrue, however. I’m so thoroughly familiar with scripture which tells us what He intends and has expressed, I can quote it without looking up the reference.

I also don't believe God exists, but even if it did exist, I don't believe you are the one to tell me what it thinks.

He is a person, not an inanimate object.

I don't know why you'd feel comfortable claiming you can tell others what God thinks, either.

Because I’m quite literate. I read what He told others He thinks. It’s not rocket science.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want. Good luck.

[Muckman]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #33]
My view is that Christians are Christianity's worst enemy. Christians CREATE Atheist - NOT God!

I'm not much into YouTube theology but...

[Purple Knight]

So, reasonable or not. We atheists exist to set an example to the morally stunted of the world?

That's egotistical even for me.

Plus, it's not true. If Christianity does happen to be true, everyone is atheists and it's intended. That's unless you think that God would reward really horrible people who would otherwise be raping and murdering, but they do the right thing because they think that if they don't, they'll go to Hell.

[Purple Knight]

My view is that Christians are Christianity's worst enemy. Christians CREATE Atheist - NOT God!

I've only run into a few nasty Christians in my times. Me being an atheist is more about just not having any good reason to believe in any gods or any afterlife.

If Christians had been terrible people in my experience, it wouldn't stop me from believing that any of the lore was true, if that's what I had reason to think.

My family did use Christian teachings against me in the worst way possible, but they were Unitarians and not Christians. The vast majority of Christians are nice.

The big problem is that the nice Christians feed money to the supremely nasty ones. You might not have any need of an atheist's opinion, but this is what religious people need to stop doing. Imitate your hero and tip the moneychanging tables. You don't even have to do anything; just stop putting money on them. Pastors need to be volunteers and religious communities need to be places where money does NOT change hands. Money corrupts everything.

[Mae von H]

Because I’m thoroughly familiar with what He’s already said. And the position describes an extremely evil being worse than the Devil. That’s not Him.

OK, let's end this here. I can't tell if you are a Poe and yanking my chain, or serious. Either way, my time is more valuable to deal with either.

That’s the usual answer when someone has no reasonable answer for their theology. First the ad hominem then the demeaning “you are not worthy” response. I think you’re worthy of my time and I can fully defend every view I present. You won’t get an ad hominem. I don’t need that arrow in my quiver.

For the record, I don't believe you know what God intends, I don't think you know what God has expressed.

I’m sure that is a comforting position. It’s untrue, however. I’m so thoroughly familiar with scripture which tells us what He intends and has expressed, I can quote it without looking up the reference.

I also don't believe God exists, but even if it did exist, I don't believe you are the one to tell me what it thinks.

He is a person, not an inanimate object.

I don't know why you'd feel comfortable claiming you can tell others what God thinks, either.

Because I’m quite literate. I read what He told others He thinks. It’s not rocket science.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want. Good luck.

As are you….for now.

[alexxcJRO]

Top Follow ApkGod, as a concept, is often seen as a creator who endowed humanity with free will and the capacity for independent thought. From this perspective, the existence of atheists can be seen as a natural consequence of this gift of free will. Just as some people choose to believe in a higher power, others choose not to. It's part of the diversity of human beliefs and perspectives. Ultimately, the reasons for why God would create atheists are rooted in the complexities of human nature and the pursuit of individual autonomy.

The genuine disbelief debunks the personal God(ex: the deity Yahweh-Jesus from the Bible) for example:


G = God: on omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being-perfectly good being who wants me to believe in him and a personal relationship with me based on trust, love.

B = My sincere belief that G does not exist.

Omnipotent being = a being that can do anything that is logically possible.

Omniscient being = a being that knows everything, has perfect knowledge.

Omnibenevolent-perfectly good being = a being that will do only good as oppose to evil all the time, a being that is morally perfect, perfectly just, benevolent towards all, cares and loves all equally.


Argument from genuine disbelief/non-belief

Logical deduction by reduction ad absurdum:

P1. G exists.
P2. An omniscient being knows of a way to stop B.
P3. An omnipotent being who knows a way to stop B has the power to do so.
P4. A being who knows of a way to stop B, has the power to do so, and who wants to do so, would do it.
P5. If there exists G then B would not exist.
P6. Because G exists then B does not exist.
P7. B exists.(Logical contradiction)
C: Therefore G does not exist.

[Mae von H]

Top Follow ApkGod, as a concept, is often seen as a creator who endowed humanity with free will and the capacity for independent thought. From this perspective, the existence of atheists can be seen as a natural consequence of this gift of free will. Just as some people choose to believe in a higher power, others choose not to. It's part of the diversity of human beliefs and perspectives. Ultimately, the reasons for why God would create atheists are rooted in the complexities of human nature and the pursuit of individual autonomy.

The genuine disbelief debunks the personal God(ex: the deity Yahweh-Jesus from the Bible) for example:


G = God: on omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being-perfectly good being who wants me to believe in him and a personal relationship with me based on trust, love.

B = My sincere belief that G does not exist.

Omnipotent being = a being that can do anything that is logically possible.

Omniscient being = a being that knows everything, has perfect knowledge.

Omnibenevolent-perfectly good being = a being that will do only good as oppose to evil all the time, a being that is morally perfect, perfectly just, benevolent towards all, cares and loves all equally.


Argument from genuine disbelief/non-belief

Logical deduction by reduction ad absurdum:

P1. G exists.
P2. An omniscient being knows of a way to stop B.
P3. An omnipotent being who knows a way to stop B has the power to do so.
P4. A being who knows of a way to stop B, has the power to do so, and who wants to do so, would do it.
P5. If there exists G then B would not exist.
P6. Because G exists then B does not exist.
P7. B exists.(Logical contradiction)
C: Therefore G does not exist.

P4 does not work with the other assumptions because to do as you suggest would be evil and that act is eliminated already. It is a little like, "if God is good and wants me to believe in Him, He would force me to believe in him whether I want to or not." Being good and forcing someone to think something because you have the power is impossible. The Good does not force itself upon another as it is no longer good. This is the usual problem that is missed. Having great power does not equate with being a tyrant. And no, having all knowledge does not mean one can find a way to be remain good and do evil. Having all knowledge means one SEES that one cannot be good and do evil.

[alexxcJRO]

P4 does not work with the other assumptions because to do as you suggest would be evil and that act is eliminated already. It is a little like, "if God is good and wants me to believe in Him, He would force me to believe in him whether I want to or not." Being good and forcing someone to think something because you have the power is impossible. The Good does not force itself upon another as it is no longer good. This is the usual problem that is missed. Having great power does not equate with being a tyrant. And no, having all knowledge does not mean one can find a way to be remain good and do evil. Having all knowledge means one SEES that one cannot be good and do evil.

Nonsense.
1.
Beliefs are not acquired by choice.
We are compelled into belief by certain evidence or reasons.
God would not force any choice sir. We would simply be convinced he exists.
God supposedly appeared to multiple people in the Bible stories and convinced them of his existence.
Q: Did he forced them to believe he exists?

Also let's not forget God intervened with Pharaoh free will. Forced him to not let the Israelites go. So much for the precious "free will gift".

"[1] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: [20] But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go."(Exodus 10)

2. Analogy:

Pete is an orphan since 10 years old. Was raised by a single mother.
He does not know if he has a father or not.
Sometimes he wanders about his father existence.
Your saying Pete father exists, cares about Pete, wants to have a relationship with the boy, wants the boy to know he exists yet this does not happen because the father does not want to force the belief that he exist to the boy although he did show himself to some of his others sons. It does not make sense sir.

The logical scenarios are:
-the father might exist but be indifferent to Pete existence(knows about him but does not care)
or
- the father might exist but does not know about Pete's existence(one night stand)
or
- the father might exist but the relationship is impossible to happen(Pete being conceived in vitro from a random sperm sampling).
or
- the father does not exist, never existed. Pete was conceived only by his mother who was a true hermaphrodite.