boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:22 am
When did he say this? From his own lips? Not from someone else's pen?
So To learn anything from anyone else’s lips, your own ears must have had the possibility of hearing those spoken words. If you require that your own ears hear spoken words from any knowledge source or you refuse their knowledge, how did you learn anything at all? Can we assume you NEVER EVER learn from books but only speakers? That seems to be your standard. Our interaction is doomed because WRITTEN words are our only medium here.
Also, maybe he can't - maybe he's not powerful enough to control people?
Maybe He’s too morally good to control people. Have you considered this possibility?
Because He repeatedly tells us to choose right over wrong. He punishes us for our choices. He rewards us for our choices. He’s obviously given the ability to choose to man. He never ever says that He is choosing for us, end of story.
He never says anything, though. You seem to be taking his silence for a reason. Why, it's almost as if he doesn't exist and you are making excuses for him.
You are likely confusing the lack of experiencing Him speaking to you for Him not speaking at all. He speaks to many people and constantly, but some do not hear. Some do not want to hear, some no longer can hear. Some expect his voice to be different than it is. But in any case, millions will testify that he speaks and a lot.
How is my view that God isn’t micromanaging all human activity “speaking for God” and your position of insisting God is micromanaging all human activity NOT “speaking for God?” You haven’t a shred of proof God is managing all human choices.
Because you don't actually know what God thinks. I don't think God exists, so - of course - he isn't managing anything.
Of course I know what God thinks, same as I know what you think …that is, on matters which you have explained what you think. I know, for example, you think there is no God. So I know what you think. Same way I know what God thinks on matters He has explained. It is not rocket science.
You appear to be not only assuming God exists, but what his thoughts are.
I do not assume this any more than I assume you do not think God is there at all. This is not difficult.
You seem to be telling God what to do. God says in the Bible says “choose whom you will serve.” He isn’t talking to Himself.
The Bible says a lot of things. Other Holy Books say other things.
You, and those books, are speaking for God. That's not God talking.
A biography is not an autobiography.
You have a standard that merely prevents you from learning truth. You insist that only verbal communication is to be trusted so that eliminates all books.
To clarify, the bible is not our *holy* book. We do not have a holy book or holy man in that sense. We do not kill you if you step on it or tear it up like the muslims regarding the Koran. And, btw, have you read other written {not oral so beware} material from religions? The Bible is useful to teach us to be holy, that is, to do right by others. That is what holy means to us. This is not true of the Koran or Hindu writings.
Do you have a saying from God telling us that He is choosing for us whom we will serve?
No, but I am aware of Theological Determinism:
Theological Determinism
Theological determinism is the view that God determines every event that occurs in the history of the world. While there is much debate about which prominent historical figures were theological determinists, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, and Gottfried Leibniz all seemed to espouse the view at least at certain points in their illustrious careers. Contemporary theological determinists also appeal to various biblical texts (for example Ephesians 1:11) and confessional creeds (for example the Westminster Confession of Faith) to support their view. While such arguments from authority carry significant weight within the traditions in which they are offered, another form of argument for theological determinism which has broader appeal draws on perfect being theology, or a kind of systematic thinking through the implications of the claim that God is—in the words of St. Anselm—quo maius cogitari non potest: that than which none greater can be conceived. The article below considers three such perfect being arguments for theological determinism, having to do with God’s knowledge of the future, providential governance of creation, and absolute independence. Implications of theological determinism for human freedom and divine responsibility are then discussed.
OK, so God never said anything such thing about Himself, orally or written.
