Prayer

[POI]

For Debate: Is prayer just talking to yourself? If not, why not? Sure, prayer may make one feel satisfied/other, but there is likely no agency, on the other side, facilitating such desired response(s).

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People pray to many differing god(s) and/or other. Statistically speaking, many god(s) and/or other aren't answering, as many of these god(s) and/or other likely do not even exist. Hence, at least in part, many are merely talking to themselves in prayer. If many of the desired result(s) can happen in prayer, without any agency actually responding, because such agency does not exist, then it's quite plausible this is the case for all prayer.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #36]

I think we all take life seriously. The ones who struggle with sorting out the problems of life are lawmakers, and those who puzzle about the 'eternal verities' as the Hitch Hiker's guide to the Galaxy puts it, are philosophers. The religions do not so much address the problem as come up with easy answers - invent a big invisible human that did everything including make morality like a blancmange tipped out of a mould, and do whatever it tells us or else, rather than work out what the good is.

No, religions were never the answer, they only claimed they were.

You seem to think that working out what the good is indicates you are taking life seriously.

But in other ways experimenting with your life Indicates that you think you have time to waste and are not taking life seriously.

Religion is the answer because at some point you will codify your experience.

[1213]

I do not think you have read my question. Please re-read the part in bold red. The point being there exists countless god claims, with countless story lines. You will not encounter all the ones presented, nor will you ever encounter the ones (yet or never) to be discovered. And yet, you have likely merely settled on the one in which you were indoctrinated within.

If they would have something to me, don't you think they would have said it or sent the message?

[1213]

...
The people who believe would not agree with you. So you have nothing, other than your personal preference.

If the other "god's have not said to me anything, nor sent any message for me, how could my saying "they have nothing for me" be wrong?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #36]

I think we all take life seriously. The ones who struggle with sorting out the problems of life are lawmakers, and those who puzzle about the 'eternal verities' as the Hitch Hiker's guide to the Galaxy puts it, are philosophers. The religions do not so much address the problem as come up with easy answers - invent a big invisible human that did everything including make morality like a blancmange tipped out of a mould, and do whatever it tells us or else, rather than work out what the good is.

No, religions were never the answer, they only claimed they were.

You seem to think that working out what the good is indicates you are taking life seriously.

But in other ways experimenting with your life Indicates that you think you have time to waste and are not taking life seriously.

Religion is the answer because at some point you will codify your experience.

On the contrary; realising (or theorizing at least) that this life is the only one we get, makes one prioritise time concentratedly; and time spent on grovelling to old idols, Holy Books and myths comes to be seen as a total waste of time. Of course, if that makes you happy, then go for it. But no way will you delude others into wasting their time on it when there are other options, by ensuring they never get to hear them.

Which is why I spend my time on this matter - providing reasonable alternatives to the claims of religions.

[TRANSPONDER]

I do not think you have read my question. Please re-read the part in bold red. The point being there exists countless god claims, with countless story lines. You will not encounter all the ones presented, nor will you ever encounter the ones (yet or never) to be discovered. And yet, you have likely merely settled on the one in which you were indoctrinated within.

If they would have something to me, don't you think they would have said it or sent the message?

As I recall, the argument (or excuse) is that you have to Invite the god into your hart, first, or He (or she) can't get their message through. So the problem with Krishna, Athena or Virachocha in communicating with you is that you have not brainwashed yourself into Faith in them which is required before the deity (whoever it is) can communicate their messages to one. That I would place a large bet, is the excuse I'd be given were i to ask why Jesusgod just doesn't appear and convert me.

POI wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:12 pm
How would you know if any of the countless claimed god(s) you have, or have never examined, are worthy?
Because they have not said anything that would be even near as impressive as what is in the Bible. And for me, they really have nothing.
The people who believe would not agree with you. So you have nothing, other than your personal preference.

...
The people who believe would not agree with you. So you have nothing, other than your personal preference.

If the other "god's have not said to me anything, nor sent any message for me, how could my saying "they have nothing for me" be wrong?

Because they have said things to their believers as much as your god has said things to you as indeed those of other Christian denominations you might consider not getting True messages, yet they get messages.

So the supposition (aside from evidence self - delusionary bias) is that your messages from God are no more to be credited than messages from any other god, or indeed to earthly recipients from Flying saucer pilots, and I can tell you there were not a few of those, and sending Biblical - style prophecies, too.

So what it comes down to are the claims in the Holy Books and the religious Dogmas, and if you have never studied them, how do you know they are not as valid as your Belief, or more so?

I know you have Faith but, as usual, that is irrelevant in making a valid case to anyone else, which is (while your persistent faithbased denial is not) the point of discussion, here.

[POI]

I do not think you have read my question. Please re-read the part in bold red. The point being there exists countless god claims, with countless story lines. You will not encounter all the ones presented, nor will you ever encounter the ones (yet or never) to be discovered. And yet, you have likely merely settled on the one in which you were indoctrinated within.

If they would have something to me, don't you think they would have said it or sent the message?

Your response is curious.... If your God speaks to everyone, without that person first summoning him in some particular way, then why does the Christian God not speak to everyone -- (including me)?

[TRANSPONDER]

I do not think you have read my question. Please re-read the part in bold red. The point being there exists countless god claims, with countless story lines. You will not encounter all the ones presented, nor will you ever encounter the ones (yet or never) to be discovered. And yet, you have likely merely settled on the one in which you were indoctrinated within.

If they would have something to me, don't you think they would have said it or sent the message?

Your response is curious.... If your God speaks to everyone, without that person first summoning him in some particular way, then why does the Christian God not speak to everyone -- (including me)?

Or me. I was here first! And I see we have near 500 people browsing. That is fantastic A thousand times welcome, it is what I was hoping for when I parachuted in with a dirk between me teeth two years ago - more discussion (and it is very good quality, or quantity at least) and ideas getting out that don't appear to have bobbed up in the Mainstream. I hope many will be inspired to post and give me an even tougher time than our Theist pals are giving me right now.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #36]

I think we all take life seriously. The ones who struggle with sorting out the problems of life are lawmakers, and those who puzzle about the 'eternal verities' as the Hitch Hiker's guide to the Galaxy puts it, are philosophers. The religions do not so much address the problem as come up with easy answers - invent a big invisible human that did everything including make morality like a blancmange tipped out of a mould, and do whatever it tells us or else, rather than work out what the good is.

No, religions were never the answer, they only claimed they were.

You seem to think that working out what the good is indicates you are taking life seriously.

But in other ways experimenting with your life Indicates that you think you have time to waste and are not taking life seriously.

Religion is the answer because at some point you will codify your experience.

On the contrary; realising (or theorizing at least) that this life is the only one we get, makes one prioritise time concentratedly; and time spent on grovelling to old idols, Holy Books and myths comes to be seen as a total waste of time. Of course, if that makes you happy, then go for it. But no way will you delude others into wasting their time on it when there are other options, by ensuring they never get to hear them.

Au contraire

Everyone grovels to idols, holy books and myths. Some at least know it. Know thyself.

Which is why I spend my time on this matter - providing reasonable alternatives to the claims of religions.

Yes, religion building is endemic, or as Girard might say mimetic.

[1213]

Your response is curious.... If your God speaks to everyone, without that person first summoning him in some particular way, then why does the Christian God not speak to everyone -- (including me)?

His message is in the Bible and it seems it has been offered also to you. And in addition to that, you have also people here answering to your questions about it so that you have even better chance to understand it.

[1213]

I do not think you have read my question. Please re-read the part in bold red. The point being there exists countless god claims, with countless story lines. You will not encounter all the ones presented, nor will you ever encounter the ones (yet or never) to be discovered. And yet, you have likely merely settled on the one in which you were indoctrinated within.

If they would have something to me, don't you think they would have said it or sent the message?

As I recall, the argument (or excuse) is that you have to Invite the god into your hart, first, or He (or she) can't get their message through....

In this case I count if the message is delivered to me in a form of a book, or by some human telling the message directly. I would accept that as evidence for that the "god" has something to say for me. After that I could evaluate is the message good.