I AM HE or I AM?

[MissKate13]

Ego Eimi = I AM
There is no HE. It simply means.I AM.

There are several instances in John where Jesus applies to Himself the same expression that God used at the burning bush: “I AM.” (Exodus 3:14)

(John 8:24). The word “He” is in italics indicating the translators’ insertion. However, in keeping with the theme of John, as well as the immediate context, its insertion is unwarranted and obscures the power of Jesus’ statement. He was, in fact, forthrightly declaring His deity to the hard-hearted Jews by identifying Himself with the same Deity that Moses encountered at the burning bush.

This fact is evident in the context. Three verses later, in John 8:28, Jesus again states I AM. Translators place the “He” in italics.

For a third time, in John 8:58 , Jesus pointedly presses the fact to bring closure to His confrontation: Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

The Jews correctly understood that Jesus was making a direct claim to Deity, evidenced by the fact that they prepared to execute Him for the capital crime of blasphemy.

In John 4:19, Jesus stresses the same point to the Samaritan woman. The translators again add “He” following “I AM” Jesus was connecting Himself the the “I AM” of the burning bush.

The apostles were gripped by fear for their lives, seeing Jesus walking on the water toward their boat. “But He said to them, ‘It is I; do not be afraid’” (John 6:20). The English reader would likely never know that the words “It is I” are a translation of the Greek ego eimi, “I am.” Undoubtedly, Jesus was again calling attention to His divinity—as indicated by “I AM. Be not afraid.

”On the occasion when Jesus washed the feet of His disciples in John 13:19, He said to them, “Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He” (John 13:19). The word He was added. Once again, Jesus was deliberately spotlighting His divinity to His disciples by identifying Himself with the burning bush episode. He intended to emphasize to them that they would realize that He is the great “I AM.”

My personal favorite is John 18:4-5. When the mob came to arrest Jesus, He asks, “Whom are you seeking?’ They answered Him, ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus said to them, ‘I am He’” (John 18:4-5). Once again, “He” is in italics.

Notice the reaction. They drew back and fell to the ground. Remember, that these soldiers were not Romans. They were Jewish soldiers sent by the chief priests and Pharisees. They were well aware of the import of the expression “I AM.”

Jesus enlisted the use of “I am” in seven additional instances when He offered descriptions of His divine nature, each prefaced by EGO EIM.
1. “I am the Bread of Life” (6:35).
2. “I am the Light of the world” (8:12).
3. “I am the Door” (10:9).
4. “I am the Good Shepherd” (10:4).
5. “I am the Resurrection and the Life” (11:25).
6. “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life” (14:6).
7. “I am the Vine” (15:5).
In each of these cases, a feature of Jesus’ Person is spotlighted that can only describe deity. No mere human being can rightfully be said to be the Bread of Life, the Light of the world, etc. These glorious affirmations pertain solely to Christ in His divine state.

Insering the word “He” was not only unnecessary, its insertion obscures and softens the force of Jesus’ claim explicitly linking Himself directly to the statement spoken by God to Moses at the burning bush. Indeed, the very heart and core of Christianity is Christ as the divine Son of God. One cannot even be a Christian unless that divinity is orally confessed prior to conversion (Romans 10:9-10).

Unless you believe Jesus when He says EGO EIMI, translated I AM, you will die in your sins.

[1213]

...Jesus is the mighty God, Jesus is the everlasting Father...

If Jesus is the Father, who is the son?

every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
1 John 2:23

The reason why I think your interpretation is wrong is these:

Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one; for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth--as there are gods many and lords many-- yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
1 Cor. 8:4-6
for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5
and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;
John 17:3
Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'
John 20:17
my Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

To me, the words of Jesus are greater than your words.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to 1213 in post #81]

I know this question was addressed to Eddie. I’m looking forward to his response, but I would like to also address it.

Jesus is not the Father as in God, the Father.

Jesus is the Father of eternity, being the creator of all things. (John 1:3, Col. 1:17)

Everlasting Father is a metaphor.

Strong’s defines everlasting as perpetuity.

Each of the names Jesus was to be given were names assigned to divinity: Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Part 1:

Every word, in every order, in every tense, contained within the inspired word of God matters.

Christ is the Word of God.

Scripture is indeed inspired (but not everything written is scripture).

But that is another topic.

Yes, it can be another topic, but if you believe that not everything written in scripture is inspired by God, then why are you looking into the original language to examine words that (according to you) may or may not be inspired?

1 - That is the topic of this thread.

2 - It is being implied in the OP that unless a person believes a particular translation (and interpretation), that person "will die in their sins". This is absolutely false. Christ does not teach this. From earlier:

My Lord taught that He is the Son of God and that we are to believe in Him.

Remember that famous verse?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Believe in whom? The SON.

Who did Christ tell the Samaritan woman He was? The Messiah.

To whom did God tell us to listen? His Son.

There are many direct statements spread throughout the NT supporting the fact that we are to believe in the Son of God, the Christ.

There is no such statement supporting the claim that we must believe that Christ is "THE I AM" or we will die in our sins.


That claim is using the same tool that religion uses to control people: fear.


3 - To see (and show others) what is actually written as opposed to simply listening to all the claims that men make.

If there is a question of inspiration (and thus error) on one part of scripture, then why can't we question all of it?

This whole thread is questioning the translation of a verse, even by people who think the entire bible is inspired. And so far, the 'evidence' used to support the claim that ego eimi means Christ is declaring himself to be "the I AM", has been shown to be either (a) false (more than one person says ego eimi of themselves; Strong's does not make the claim that this is a declaration of "I AM"), or (b) nothing more than an interpretation of men.

Have you not read 2 Timothy 3:16? All scripture, every scripture is God breathed. This means it all came from the mouth of God, did it not?

As stated in the comment you are quoting:

Scripture is indeed inspired (but not everything written is scripture).

There are of course translation errors (as this thread readily admits). Lying pen of the scribes that have handled the law falsely (Jeremiah 8:8). And even Christ said 'woe to you scribes'.

But it is not the bible that is the Word of God.

Christ is the Word of God (as even that book states). The living Word of God.

But no translation is inspired by God, only the original text which God has faithfully preserved as he said he would.

1 - We do not have the original text.
2 - God said this, where?

Psalm 12:6–7 (KJV 1900)
6  The words of the LORD are pure words:
As silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

To get a better idea of what/who is being preserved, lets compare verse 7 to a few other translations (and of course any interested reader can check out the context of this Psalm by looking up verses 1-5 as well):

You, LORD, will keep the needy safe and will protect us forever from the wicked - NIV translation

Thou, [O Jehovah], dost preserve them, Thou keepest us from this generation to the age. - Youngs Literal translation


See the rest here:

https://biblehub.com/psalms/12-7.htm


Since some prefer to compare scripture to scripture, please note the cross references on the same page in that link are referring to people being preserved:

For the LORD loves justice and will not forsake His saints. They are preserved forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off. (Psalm 37:28)

Hate evil, O you who love the LORD! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them from the hand of the wicked. (Psalm 97:10)


I am breaking this post into two because it is quite long.


Peace again to you and to you all.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Part 2:

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #76]

Now, concerning Acts 10:21, yes, this historically is speaking of Peter, but who is this speaking of spiritually is a far more important truth. I say this because the Bible is first and foremost a spiritual book cloaked as a historical book. Therefore, it's the spiritual meaning of any passage that we should be looking for, rather than what appears to be written in the plain text.

Okay now Eddie, this sounds like to me like you're just making stuff up. Perhaps not you, personally, but someone.

The claim being made is that ego eimi - in that order - is always Christ or God.

But in this example it is about Peter. In another example, it is about the man born blind, whom Christ healed.

Therefore, ego eimi is not used exclusively of Christ or God.

The fact that the Bible is a spiritual book is not made up.

You seem to have bypassed the point.

I was not speaking one way or other about what kind of book the bible is.

I was speaking about your claim and teaching on this particular passage. Because anyone can claim 'this is a spiritual passage" and make it mean whatever they want. As men and religions do all the time. I notice that you ignored the part where the Spirit says to Peter, men are looking for you.

The fact that God uses historical accounts to point to spiritual truths is not made up. This is the very nature of the scriptures and how they were written in parables to hide truth.

The verse under question is not a parable.


* And since we're actually speaking about the word 'eimi' (which translates as I am), and not specifically "ego eimi", a whole lot of other people also said the words "I am" speaking of themselves.

You have to create extra rules in order to maintain your claim, and that is what I mean by 'making things up'.

Rule 1 - "It has to be the words 'ego eimi."

Rule 2 - "Ego eimi has to be in that exact order."

Rule 3 - "It can't have any words in between ego and eimi."

Rule 4 - "If ever there is a passage that follows the above rules, and instead refers to someone other than Christ or God, then ignore all the rules I just made up and instead call it a "spiritual passage"."


Please show me where Christ teaches the above?

Ego eimi is not even used by Christ to mean ONLY "I exist'.

"I am the bread of Life" simply means that He is the Bread of Life. There is no "I AM" declaration that you and MissKate are pushing.

You appear to be taking any use of the words "I am" and claiming that means Christ declared Himself to be God (YHWH), as if someone cannot say "I exist" or "I am (something)" without declaring oneself to be God. That is not correct.

So, the first problem here is that the meaning of "I AM" is much more than, "I exist".

The problem here is that people are listening to things (religion, other men, themselves and their own reasoning, etc.) instead of listening to Christ. Even though Christ is the One to whom God told us to listen.

When we look up how God uses this same word "haya" throughout the Old Testament, we notice that it is used in the past, present and future tense.
Past: Judges 19:30 (KJV 1900)
And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was (haya) no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

Present: Genesis 27:1 (KJV 1900)
And it came to pass(haya), that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim, so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son, and said unto him, My son: and he said unto him, Behold, here am I.

Future: Exodus 11:6 (KJV 1900)
And there shall be (haya) a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

Eddie, most (if not all) verbs are used in the past, the present, and the future.

I was; I am, I will be.

I loved, I love, I will love.

I ran, I run, I will run.

Different languages have different ways of showing past, present, future, but this is simply a part of language. You're not saying anything but pointing out that a verb can be used in the past, the present, and the future.


Again, please show me where Christ taught what you are teaching?

Because I am HIS disciple. HE is my master, my Lord. I listen to and believe HIM.


The rest has been responded to throughout the thread, along with multiple questions that have as yet gone unaddressed.




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Eddie Ramos]

...Jesus is the mighty God, Jesus is the everlasting Father...

If Jesus is the Father, who is the son?

every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
1 John 2:23

The reason why I think your interpretation is wrong is these:

Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one; for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth--as there are gods many and lords many-- yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
1 Cor. 8:4-6
for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5
and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;
John 17:3
Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'
John 20:17
my Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

To me, the words of Jesus are greater than your words.

So, when we (who are finite creatures) attempt to understand an infinite being like God, left to our logic, we will always come to erroneous conclusions because the limitations that we face, are the same limitations that we set for God when we read the Bible. For example, I am my biological father's son. This mean that I can't be my father and his son at the same time. This is a limitation I face as a created being, but I can't presume to take this limitation and apply it to my understanding of an infinite being like God.

Psalm 145:3 (KJV 1900)
Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised;
And his greatness is unsearchable.


According to our logical understanding, three beings can't be one. Yet God is not limited to our logic or way of comprehension.

1 John 5:7–8 (KJV 1900)
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Therefore, without God providing information about his divinity through his Word, we would all be left to our imaginations. And, as a matter of fact, all those who disregard the Bible, develop their own understanding of the kind of god they want to worship. But the only way to truly understand who God is, is first and foremost, to be a true child of God and have the Spirit of God within us. The reason is because God is a God who hides himself.

Isaiah 45:15 (KJV 1900)
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself,
O God of Israel, the Saviour.

And he does this to reveal himself (who he is) and his truths to his children alone.

1 Corinthians 2:11–14 (KJV 1900)
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This is the very reason Jesus (the Word of God) spoke in parables and without parables, he did not speak. This means that the Word of God, the Bible, while being an historically accurate book, was written as a parable. This means that everything we read in the scriptures, has a deeper spiritual, far more important meaning that what we can glean on the surface of the text. This is also why there seem to be a lot of passages that apparently (not actually) contradict one another. This is because they all have to be worked out as one harmonious truth, in light of the scriptures as a whole.

So, the only way God's true children can understand God and who he is, is by what information God has provided in His Word, the Bible. When we read all the passages you quoted above, without taking the whole of the scriptures into consideration, then we can arrive at a conclusion that best suits us. But that is not being a faithful student of the Bible. But when we are willing to take all the pieces of the puzzle and put them in their proper place, then the whole picture becomes clear and we can arrive at a proper conclusion.

God has revealed himself in the scriptures as a divinity of three. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. While we would like to keep them separate because that's what makes sense to us, God declares that they are one. So, if we can't comprehend that, then we still have to trust it because God provides enough information to show us this is true.

John 14:9 (KJV 1900)
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900)
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It's passages like these that often get ignored when trying to "prove" that Jesus is not the one true God. But, again, that's like leaving out the pieces of the puzzle and saying that you can clearly see the whole picture. Now, when the Bible speaks of Christ as something lower than God, it's because God as the Son/Christ had a purpose. His purpose was to take the sin of his people while being judged by his own law. So, God humbled himself in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ and became obedient to death, being laden with the sins of those he chose to save. And it's within this context within the scriptures that Jesus portrays himself as having a lower role in the Godhead. Because he is the one undergoing the shame and punishment of sin, while the Father is the one pouring out his wrath upon him for that sin. But it was God himself, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, who shed his blood to atone for sins.

Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood

When the rich young ruler approached Christ as a mere good teacher, Christ responded according to the way he was addressed.

Luke 18:18–19 (KJV 1900)
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Had he been approached as God himself, then that means that the one addressing him appropriately was the one whose eyes were opened to the truth of who he is. Like with doubting Thomas. Above all, please keep in mind that the words of Christ are not the words in red in the Bible, the words of Christ are every word of the scriptures. This is why Christ is called the Word of God. And the Bible, is the record in which God has recorded His Word. It is all the words of Christ and it is all spoken in parables.

Mark 4:33–34 (KJV 1900)
And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. 34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Matthew 13:10–13 (KJV 1900)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

This is how God hides truth about every doctrine, including who he is.

Proverbs 25:2 (KJV 1900)

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing(A WORD):
But the honour of kings is to search out a matter (A WORD).


Deuteronomy 29:29 (KJV 1900)
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

[Eddie Ramos]

Peace to you,

Part 1:

2 - It is being implied in the OP that unless a person believes a particular translation (and interpretation), that person "will die in their sins". This is absolutely false. Christ does not teach this. From earlier:

My Lord taught that He is the Son of God and that we are to believe in Him.

Remember that famous verse?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Believe in whom? The SON.

Who did Christ tell the Samaritan woman He was? The Messiah.

To whom did God tell us to listen? His Son.

There are many direct statements spread throughout the NT supporting the fact that we are to believe in the Son of God, the Christ.

There is no such statement supporting the claim that we must believe that Christ is "THE I AM" or we will die in our sins.


That claim is using the same tool that religion uses to control people: fear.


3 - To see (and show others) what is actually written as opposed to simply listening to all the claims that men make.

Peace again to you and to you all.

To try and simplify my reply so as not to trail off of the subject, I have removed your other replies in part 1. But if you would like to discuss anyone of them, I would be willing in its proper thread. So, let's look again at the "implication" of the OP.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.

This is not an implication, it's a direct warning (in a parable). I think there may be a misconception of what is inspired and what isn't. No language translation is an inspired translation, they are just translations, and all with errors. What is inspired are the original Greek and Hebrew writings that God himself has kept from generation to generation (I know we don't agree on this). It's these manuscripts (copies) that we constantly turn back to (as you have done to verify the locations of "ego eimi") to verify and to double check to see if the translators did a faithful job. And in most cases, they did. But where God placed each word in the scriptures (the manuscripts, not any translation), and the tense, and the gender, and the singular and the plural, etc, matters immensely.

Proverbs 30:5–6 (KJV 1900)

5  Every word of God is pure:
He is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6  Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

So, when any translation takes place, oftentimes, words must be added in order to make the sentence mor legible. But those added words have no weight in how we are to understand any particular passage. In other words, those filler words (although helpful at times) are not authoritative. So, when we seek to understand a passage based on the words that God used in the Hebrew or Greek, then we gain a far better understanding of the message God is trying to get across. In John 8:24, the translators added the word "he". Ok, seems harmless enough, but now the question is, what point are the translators trying to convey here? Well, if we remove their added word, we can get a clearer picture of what Christ was conveying here.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.

It's certain that anyone who reads this, at first glance, may not get exactly what Christ is saying here, but as they continue reading places where Christ uses these same Greek words, the picture begins to become clearer (for some).

John 8:58 (KJV 1900)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The word "am" is in the present tense, yet it's being used by Jesus, of Jesus, in a past tense context. Jesus didn't say, "I was", or "I existed", which would be proper past tense uses of describing his existence thousands of years ago, before Abraham existed. He said, "I am". This is the same description that JEHOVAH uses of himself, is it not? I hope we agree on this because it's true.

Exodus 3:13–15 (KJV 1900)
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

So, the warning that Christ gave in John 8:24 is certainly something that should cause fear, but it doesn't because it isn't properly understood. Yet it doesn't make the warning any less serious. It is imperative that those who claim to believe in Jesus, believe also that he is I AM. That he is JEHOVAH in the flesh. But what people have done, is they have rejected this truth and claim to believe in Jesus and thus think that this saves them, while rejecting the truth that he is JEHOVAH God.

It is therefore not possible to believe in Jesus while at the same time denying who he is. This is what John 8:24 is teaching. And regarding "believing", this subject is among the most widely misunderstood doctrines of the Bible. Believing in Jesus never saved anyone. The devils believe and they're still devils. And there are plenty of examples of people taking it upon themselves to believe on Jesus, yet have remained unsaved. This teaches us that "believing" is not something man of his own will can do in order to become saved. This is why all those who claim to have believed on Christ in such and such a day have a false sense of security because they are trusting in a work of righteousness they have done for their justification. And the Bible as a whole never allowed it.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Just one quick point from that last post (post 85) to 1213:

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #85]

And the Bible, is the record in which God has recorded His Word. It is all the words of Christ and it is all spoken in parables.

This is untrue.

To begin with, yes, the verse you quoted (Mark 4:33-34) states that Christ spoke to (certain) people only in parables. But the bible (and those VERY verses!) also records Christ explaining the meaning of those parables to His apostles. Therefore, the bible is NOT all spoken in parables. Christ explains the meaning of those parables to His apostles and that information is recorded in the same book (often the same chapter) as those parables.



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[1213]

So, when we (who are finite creatures) attempt to understand an infinite being like God, left to our logic, we will always come to erroneous conclusions because the limitations that we face, are the same limitations that we set for God when we read the Bible.... ...without God providing information about his divinity through his Word, we would all be left to our imaginations...

Ok, that is exactly why I rather remain in what is said in the Bible than replace that with the doctrines of men.

[Eddie Ramos]

So, when we (who are finite creatures) attempt to understand an infinite being like God, left to our logic, we will always come to erroneous conclusions because the limitations that we face, are the same limitations that we set for God when we read the Bible.... ...without God providing information about his divinity through his Word, we would all be left to our imaginations...

Ok, that is exactly why I rather remain in what is said in the Bible than replace that with the doctrines of men.

As would I, as long as we are willing to take into account every single scripture on the subject and see how they harmonize together.

[tam]

Peace to you all!

One more question if I may, especially for anyone who thinks the Jews believed that Christ was declaring Himself to be "the I AM" at John 8:58-59 (and anywhere else) and that claim is the reason they picked up stones to stone Him...

If the Jews knew that Christ was declaring Himself to be "the I AM", why didn't the apostles know it?"



Peace again.