Hate

[boatsnguitars]

Is it right to hate some things?

Is it right to hate false religions?

When is hate justified?

[Purple Knight]

Is it right to hate some things?

If it's never right to hate anything, it reduces to the absurdity most people will well admit, of not caring if someone is racist or not. Clearly we're allowed to hate, hate. Clearly we're allowed to be intolerant, to intolerance. This is in Karl Popper's admission.



What he neglects to address, however, is that once it is proven that hate is sometimes permissible, the burden of proof is not on the hater, to prove he logically must be allowed his specific form of hatred, otherwise he is not, but on his decrier, to prove that their hatred of him is justified and his hatred of his original thing, is not.

Once the tolerance people say, "Of course we can hate racists; it's justified," they must then examine the original haters to make sure they are not also justified. They can no longer claim the high ground against someone, simply because they hate something. Karl Popper does not seem to realise he is arguing for justified hatred, and that once he does that successfully, which he certainly has, the conversation cannot any longer stop at, "Intolerant, therefore bad," because he has proved that some intolerance is good, so there might be more than one instance, and that possibility must be examined, not dismissed.

Is it right to hate false religions?

This is just my opinion but I'd rather hate the human nature that makes us so willing to believe things without examining them. In other words, I hate irrationality. Hating the people that do it, is pointless. They're driven to do it. It's like hating that moth for bumping that light bulb for the sixtieth time. I mean, I do, but it's not serving any purpose. I can kill the moth to soothe myself, but other moths will simply do the same, and there's not a remedy, since the reason they do it, is because they are driven to.

I guess this is an argument for being Vulcan, but only sometimes. Hatred can serve a purpose in that we don't give in to laziness and allow things to happen, which should not be allowed to happen, if we get ourselves good and hateful, but it's wasted energy against the moth. So I suppose, having the introspection and then determining if it is justified to have the emotion because it provides a benefit, is optimal.

Hating a false religion is like hating spilled milk. Once it spills, roaches arrive to bathe in it. This is simply matter, acting as matter will, and all particles involved, behaving according to their properties. Before you hate the carrier of a cold who coughs into the water fountain, remember that somebody also gave it to him, first. Just like him, everyone back and back and back, had to cough, or did something else, that shed a viral particle out where someone else could uptake it. A spill will continue to spill.

Hating people who make things up and spread them for personal benefit, does do some good. People can't be charged not to trust anyone ever (in fact this is considered rude and you'll pull lots of how-dare-yous if you suggest someone shouldn't be trusted) and trust accumulates around the charismatic, perhaps because they're good at pulling how-dare-yous if people fail to trust them. We can be merciless and hateful to people who are caught in lies though. It helps them not do it again, and it helps us not trust again, even if it's rude.

[boatsnguitars]

It's an interesting dilemma for Christians. They are told to love their enemies - or, as they often say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner," but I'm not sure it's a workable position for Christians.

Their book is very clear about what happens to the person (not the sin): they are killed (by God, Moses, Flood, etc.) and then cast into the eternal fire, or some other fate depending on which Christian you talk to.

So, that's the absurdity of it. How do you say, "Hi, I'm going to kill you now because I hate your sinning - but I love you! I know by killing you at this point in your life means you wouldn't have time to repent, so you will be going to Hell - but rest assured - I love you. I really do!"

It's the impossible conflict Christians find themselves having to defend. With love like that, who needs hate?

[Purple Knight]

It's an interesting dilemma for Christians. They are told to love their enemies - or, as they often say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner," but I'm not sure it's a workable position for Christians.

Their book is very clear about what happens to the person (not the sin): they are killed (by God, Moses, Flood, etc.) and then cast into the eternal fire, or some other fate depending on which Christian you talk to.

So, that's the absurdity of it. How do you say, "Hi, I'm going to kill you now because I hate your sinning - but I love you! I know by killing you at this point in your life means you wouldn't have time to repent, so you will be going to Hell - but rest assured - I love you. I really do!"

It's the impossible conflict Christians find themselves having to defend. With love like that, who needs hate?

It's one of the two things I absolutely agree is irredeemable about Christianity. The other is transference of sin, and guilt.

At some point we can't shift the definition of love and forgiveness so that we're doing exactly what a hateful person would, and claiming that because of our enlightened mindset, we've ascended to sainthood and made ourselves perfect and free from hate.

If the right way to treat a murder-rapist is with love, and as he beats and rapes us to death, say, "It's good what you are doing, you are such a good person, I have nothing but love in my heart for you," then we must bear the consequences for that, which are not punishing him, as well as living in a society that is a literal Hell because anyone who wants to do these things, gets to, with total impunity.

I admit I hate the murderer and the rapist. I think I have every reason. I also think it's okay to be informed by these emotions as long as you're not totally blinded. Because these emotions helped us survive for millions of years, they may be sub-ideal when compared to a purely reasoned mindset, but that doesn't mean useless or counterproductive. In fact, I tend to see people insisting on the total discard of all negative emotions as letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Forgiveness serves a purpose, and if the last attractive woman alive was a horrible serial killer I would be inclined to mate with her anyway and preserve the species rather than let a grudge end it. But hate also serves a purpose, and just letting everything slide regardless of conditions could be equally ruinous. For example, if there are still other options and this woman is killing off her competition. To save others, I'd be inclined to kill her off so she's not the last one left and my children aren't forced to mate with their sisters.

[boatsnguitars]

It's an interesting dilemma for Christians. They are told to love their enemies - or, as they often say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner," but I'm not sure it's a workable position for Christians.

Their book is very clear about what happens to the person (not the sin): they are killed (by God, Moses, Flood, etc.) and then cast into the eternal fire, or some other fate depending on which Christian you talk to.

So, that's the absurdity of it. How do you say, "Hi, I'm going to kill you now because I hate your sinning - but I love you! I know by killing you at this point in your life means you wouldn't have time to repent, so you will be going to Hell - but rest assured - I love you. I really do!"

It's the impossible conflict Christians find themselves having to defend. With love like that, who needs hate?

It's one of the two things I absolutely agree is irredeemable about Christianity. The other is transference of sin, and guilt.

At some point we can't shift the definition of love and forgiveness so that we're doing exactly what a hateful person would, and claiming that because of our enlightened mindset, we've ascended to sainthood and made ourselves perfect and free from hate.

If the right way to treat a murder-rapist is with love, and as he beats and rapes us to death, say, "It's good what you are doing, you are such a good person, I have nothing but love in my heart for you," then we must bear the consequences for that, which are not punishing him, as well as living in a society that is a literal Hell because anyone who wants to do these things, gets to, with total impunity.

I admit I hate the murderer and the rapist. I think I have every reason. I also think it's okay to be informed by these emotions as long as you're not totally blinded. Because these emotions helped us survive for millions of years, they may be sub-ideal when compared to a purely reasoned mindset, but that doesn't mean useless or counterproductive. In fact, I tend to see people insisting on the total discard of all negative emotions as letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Forgiveness serves a purpose, and if the last attractive woman alive was a horrible serial killer I would be inclined to mate with her anyway and preserve the species rather than let a grudge end it. But hate also serves a purpose, and just letting everything slide regardless of conditions could be equally ruinous. For example, if there are still other options and this woman is killing off her competition. To save others, I'd be inclined to kill her off so she's not the last one left and my children aren't forced to mate with their sisters.

It would be interesting to hear from Christians who preach, "turn the other cheek to be raped." I imagine, even they feel that Jesus would react violently when he felt like it: turning tables, picking up a sword, promising to return to judge the quick and the dead and cast people into a fire-y prison (Hell).

I think it's all a ruse. I think what they mean is: "Do what I tell you to do (e.g., stop doing gay stuff) or I'll kill you. But, don't get me wrong - I'm a good person. You can tell because while I still have hate in my heart for you and your actions, I feel bad because I know I'll need to pray and ask for forgiveness from Jesus. That's why Jesus is so Great! He forgives my sins! He can forgive yours too, you filthy animal, if you would just let him - but because you are an unrepentant sinner, I will need to let God judge you after I kill you."

Now, some Christians won't actually "pull the trigger", they'll let other do it, or let the State impose laws, or they will sleep soundly knowing God will torture them while they have a front row seat from Heaven...

If Christians were actually moral people, we could forgive them a little, but they aren't. They are all dirty sinners themselves.

[Purple Knight]

Now, some Christians won't actually "pull the trigger", they'll let other do it, or let the State impose laws, or they will sleep soundly knowing God will torture them while they have a front row seat from Heaven...

If Christians were actually moral people, we could forgive them a little, but they aren't. They are all dirty sinners themselves.

The question is, if this is the correct theory of morality or not. There are empathy theories of morality and purity theories. Essentially, you either believe it's about not hurting people, or you believe in laws of purity and as long as you keep yourself clean, it's anything goes dog-eat-dog competition.

Christianity seems to be an incredibly strict purity philosophy that has a lot in it, about giving, forgiving, and putting yourself last. So it can be confused with an empathy philosophy but it isn't one. The Libertarian who believes that it is wrong to punch someone, or to kill someone, but any amount of dirty dealing is fine as long as you don't commit aggression, is a purist. Make no mistake he believes in hurting others, just, within specific rules. He believes in free trade, so if you want to kill someone, pay the grocery store not to sell your victim any food. Before he can buy a farm, he'll buy the farm. To me this is no different than believing that murder is wrong if you use a switchblade, but not if you use a kris dagger.

And it does seem like Christians believe in sanctioned, perfect knives, don't they? Something definitely feels off about calling the cops on your attacker so the nice police offer can arrive and use force to save you, damning himself to Hell while you remain pure and get saved, doesn't it?

The big question is, what is morally underneath it all: Empathy (don't hurt people) or purity (don't hurt people in specific ways)?

[Dimmesdale]

Is it right to hate some things?

Is it right to hate false religions?

When is hate justified?

I'd say if the animosity is natural; that is, if we respond with innate resentment, disgust, etc, at the sight of things we can agree are in themselves repugnant, objectionable, wrong, etc, then that animosity, that "hate" so to speak, is valid, and we shouldn't worry about it.

I have a friend who really hates his abusive parents. He's an independent adult now, but he still just loves to nurse his old hatreds, and that I think it is wrong because it serves no other purpose than feeding those old wounds, re-emphasizing them, creating something bigger than they have a right to be.

Hate is justified when you have a valid reason to hate. Otherwise, it is just relishing negative emotion for your own perverse delight, and it causes major internal damage to your psyche.

Hate can be a guide. Or hate can be a goad. We have the capacity in ourselves to choose. I for one choose to be a civilized, noble human being and I use hate to help me recognize what is abhorrent. I do not choose to be like an animal who runs on instinctual, aggressive impulses.

[Tcg]

Is it right to hate false religions?

All religions are false so this question can be shortened to, "Is it right to hate religions?"


Tcg

[Dimmesdale]

All religions are false

How do you know that?

I'd wager you don't. Unless you'd be willing to present evidence to back up your claim?

Otherwise, that statement is a dogmatic one, and, therefore, a religious one.

Which makes you, of all things, a religionist, and a false one at that.

As to whether you yourself hate religion, or hate yourself, I will, leave that up to you.

Cheers.

[TheRootOfDavid]

Is it right to hate some things?

Yes. Is it not right, to hate sin?