The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

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The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #1

Post by William »

Re:
Matthew 22:40
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Well then stick to those two, is my suggestion.
That way the secular world will know your love and understanding whilst being freed from your attempts to control any others.
Is that fair?
It appears to me that simplification is the key. The saying is related the principle of Occam's Razor.
Essentially, when faced with competing explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest is likely the correct one.(SOURCE)
Occam's Razor hardly applies since we cannot be sure what the 'Facts' are, never mind the 'Simplest explanation'.(SOURCE)
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #2

Post by boatsnguitars »

William wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:14 pm Re:
Matthew 22:40
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Well then stick to those two, is my suggestion.
That way the secular world will know your love and understanding whilst being freed from your attempts to control any others.
Is that fair?
It appears to me that simplification is the key. The saying is related the principle of Occam's Razor.
Essentially, when faced with competing explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest is likely the correct one.(SOURCE)
Occam's Razor hardly applies since we cannot be sure what the 'Facts' are, never mind the 'Simplest explanation'.(SOURCE)
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?
I can't answer your question, but I do have an issue with this: "Occam's Razor hardly applies since we cannot be sure what the 'Facts' are, never mind the 'Simplest explanation'"

If we don't know the facts, why are we applying any reasoning to it at all? If I see a shooting star, I have the "facts" that it looks like a star streaking across the sky. Clearly, this simple explanation is wrong - as we know the facts.

This is why philosophy alone is useless.


OK, i'll answer your question... IMO, OR is a rule of thumb, not a law, and therefore, ought to be applied in a casual sense, not dogmatically.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #3

Post by William »

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #2]
I do have an issue with this: "Occam's Razor hardly applies since we cannot be sure what the 'Facts' are, never mind the 'Simplest explanation'"
I agree. It is simply a hand-waving statement of opinion which has nothing to do with the OP or the OP question.
If we don't know the facts, why are we applying any reasoning to it at all? If I see a shooting star, I have the "facts" that it looks like a star streaking across the sky. Clearly, this simple explanation is wrong - as we know the facts.
Yes - "shooting stars" are not what these are.
This is why philosophy alone is useless.
Certainly in relation to suns shooting across the night sky. But the usefulness of philosophy is not being debated in this thread.
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?
OK, i'll answer your question... IMO, OR is a rule of thumb, not a law, and therefore, ought to be applied in a casual sense, not dogmatically.
Not sure if that is an answer to the question.
Occam's Razor can be applied to any philosophical hypothesis but "only casually"?

Can you provide an example of what you mean by this?

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #4

Post by boatsnguitars »

William wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:36 pm [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #2]
I do have an issue with this: "Occam's Razor hardly applies since we cannot be sure what the 'Facts' are, never mind the 'Simplest explanation'"
I agree. It is simply a hand-waving statement of opinion which has nothing to do with the OP or the OP question.
If we don't know the facts, why are we applying any reasoning to it at all? If I see a shooting star, I have the "facts" that it looks like a star streaking across the sky. Clearly, this simple explanation is wrong - as we know the facts.
Yes - "shooting stars" are not what these are.
This is why philosophy alone is useless.
Certainly in relation to suns shooting across the night sky. But the usefulness of philosophy is not being debated in this thread.
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?
OK, i'll answer your question... IMO, OR is a rule of thumb, not a law, and therefore, ought to be applied in a casual sense, not dogmatically.
Not sure if that is an answer to the question.
Occam's Razor can be applied to any philosophical hypothesis but "only casually"?

Can you provide an example of what you mean by this?
Meaning, you can consider it: "IFF I am considering the salient aspects of this problem, then I can use OR to nudge me to consider the more parsimonious option, and consider that it may override other options."

Let me put it another way: What Makes a Good Explanation?
A good explanation, whether in science or philosophy, shares several key characteristics:

Clarity and Coherence: A good explanation should be clear and logically coherent. It should avoid jargon or overly complex language that might obscure the message. The explanation should be structured in a way that the audience can follow the reasoning without undue confusion.

Accuracy and Factual Basis: In both science and philosophy, explanations should be accurate and grounded in facts or well-established principles. Scientific explanations, in particular, should be consistent with empirical evidence and tested hypotheses.

Logical Consistency: Explanations should adhere to the principles of logic. In philosophy, this means avoiding contradictions or fallacies in reasoning. In science, it means ensuring that the explanation follows a logical sequence of cause and effect.

Completeness: A good explanation should be sufficiently comprehensive to address the relevant aspects of the topic. It should cover the necessary background information and provide enough context for the audience to grasp the subject matter.

Simplicity and Parsimony: Occam's Razor, a principle in both science and philosophy, suggests that simpler explanations, all else being equal, are preferable. Unnecessarily complex or convoluted explanations should be avoided unless there is strong evidence to support them.

Testability and Falsifiability: Scientific explanations should be testable and potentially falsifiable. This means that they can be subjected to empirical testing and, if necessary, revised or rejected based on new evidence. Philosophical explanations may not always be subject to empirical testing but should still be open to critical examination and revision.

Relevance: Explanations should be relevant to the question or problem at hand. In both science and philosophy, addressing the central issue and avoiding tangential or irrelevant information is crucial for a good explanation.

Contextual Understanding: A good explanation should help the audience understand the broader context of the topic. This may involve explaining how the subject relates to other concepts, theories, or fields of study.

Engagement and Accessibility: Effective explanations engage the audience and are accessible to a wide range of individuals with varying levels of prior knowledge. They should not rely on specialized knowledge or assume that the audience shares the same background.

Elegance and Insight: In philosophy, particularly, a good explanation may offer novel insights or present complex ideas in an elegant and illuminating manner. In science, elegant explanations often simplify complex phenomena without sacrificing accuracy.

Ethical Considerations: Ethical considerations are particularly important in both philosophy and science. A good explanation should consider the ethical implications of its conclusions and should not intentionally mislead or manipulate.

"All things being equal. Of course, this is a judgment call, hence "casually." There are maqny other things to consider. Parsimony seems not as importance as, say, Relevance.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #5

Post by William »

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #4]

The list you provide is clearly one which requires being dogmatic - as in - not straying from the principles which make Occam's Razor function as intended.

Dogmatic - inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true and sticking to those.

Causal - relaxed and unconcerned. Not regular or permanent.

It appears that the two attitudes are diametric to each other.

Diametric - (with reference to opposition) completely; directly.
"two diametrically opposed viewpoints"

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #6

Post by boatsnguitars »

William wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:13 pm [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #4]

The list you provide is clearly one which requires being dogmatic - as in - not straying from the principles which make Occam's Razor function as intended.

Dogmatic - inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true and sticking to those.

Causal - relaxed and unconcerned. Not regular or permanent.

It appears that the two attitudes are diametric to each other.

Diametric - (with reference to opposition) completely; directly.
"two diametrically opposed viewpoints"
OK. You are welcome to do what you want. Cross busy streets with your eyes closed, if you feel it's too dogmatic to look both ways.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #7

Post by William »

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #6]
OK. You are welcome to do what you want. Cross busy streets with your eyes closed, if you feel it's too dogmatic to look both ways.
First you argue that one shouldn't be dogmatic when applying Occam's Razor and only apply it "casually" in some cases, then you swing with the above?

Okay. I will take that swing as you're agreeing with the logic I presented, even that you can't/won't come out and just say so.

O:)

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #8

Post by boatsnguitars »

William wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:18 pm [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #6]
OK. You are welcome to do what you want. Cross busy streets with your eyes closed, if you feel it's too dogmatic to look both ways.
First you argue that one shouldn't be dogmatic when applying Occam's Razor and only apply it "casually" in some cases, then you swing with the above?

Okay. I will take that swing as you're agreeing with the logic I presented, even that you can't/won't come out and just say so.

O:)
I never said we ought to apply OR dogmatically. I think you are reaching. I don't know why, and I don't know why it's important to you for someone to come up with a final statement on how OR ought to be applied.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #9

Post by William »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:55 am
William wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:18 pm [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #6]
OK. You are welcome to do what you want. Cross busy streets with your eyes closed, if you feel it's too dogmatic to look both ways.
First you argue that one shouldn't be dogmatic when applying Occam's Razor and only apply it "casually" in some cases, then you swing with the above?

Okay. I will take that swing as you're agreeing with the logic I presented, even that you can't/won't come out and just say so.

O:)
I never said we ought to apply OR dogmatically. I think you are reaching. I don't know why, and I don't know why it's important to you for someone to come up with a final statement on how OR ought to be applied.
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?

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Re: The Usefulness of Occam's Razor

Post #10

Post by boatsnguitars »

William wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:06 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:55 am
William wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:18 pm [Replying to boatsnguitars in post #6]
OK. You are welcome to do what you want. Cross busy streets with your eyes closed, if you feel it's too dogmatic to look both ways.
First you argue that one shouldn't be dogmatic when applying Occam's Razor and only apply it "casually" in some cases, then you swing with the above?

Okay. I will take that swing as you're agreeing with the logic I presented, even that you can't/won't come out and just say so.

O:)
I never said we ought to apply OR dogmatically. I think you are reaching. I don't know why, and I don't know why it's important to you for someone to come up with a final statement on how OR ought to be applied.
Q: Does Occam's Razor only apply to facts or can it be applied to any philosophical hypothesis?
Dogmatically or casually?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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