A QUESTION FOR ANYONE WHO HOLDS TO FREE WILL UNTO SALVATION

[Eddie Ramos]

How is it possible for someone to think they are truly saved (based on their free will), but truly not be saved at all?

Proverbs 30:12 (KJV 1900)
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes,
And yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Matthew 7:22–23 (KJV 1900)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Acts 8:13 (KJV 1900)
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:21–23 (KJV 1900)
Thou (Simon) hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement. Believing on anything is insufficient. We have to believe the truth as well. Salvation requires believing the truth too.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works. After all, "the demons believe and tremble." It is clear that we must do more than merely believe. "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:20, 26)

Jesus said: "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

Both are necessary, belief (as even the demons have) and works, as Jesus indicated.

Should we not take Jesus at his word? "Most truly I say to you, he that exercises faith in me, that one will do the works that I do..." (John 14:12)

The Apostle Paul said: ...I went bringing the message that they should repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance." (Acts 26:20)

And: [God] will render to each one according to his works: everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and immortality by endurance in work that is good." (Romans 2:6,7)

"Glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good..." (Romans 2:10)

"...In the way that befits women professing to reverence God, namely, through good works." (ITimothy 2:10)

The injunction to do good works is a tricky one. We are not saved by works but works do reflect salvation. Upon considering this conundrum, I think the best wording is we are to obey the teachings of Christ which is sometimes exchanged for theology or religion so I prefer to say we are then to obey Him. The latter actually requires a relationship with Him. You can’t really obey someone you don’t hear from.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works.

But Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So believers which have no works are not included in "whosoever believeth"?

Wow, you would think that God's only begotten Son could get it correct!

He got it correct. "Believing" involves an active faith. This includes doing fine works, as Jesus said himself and I quoted above. He said:

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works , and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16, NASB)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works.

But Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So believers which have no works are not included in "whosoever believeth"?

Wow, you would think that God's only begotten Son could get it correct!

He got it correct. "Believing" involves an active faith. This includes doing fine works, as Jesus said himself and I quoted above. He said:

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works , and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16, NASB)

Believing involves an act of faith.


Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . . (Titus 3:5)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works.

But Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So believers which have no works are not included in "whosoever believeth"?

Wow, you would think that God's only begotten Son could get it correct!

He got it correct. "Believing" involves an active faith. This includes doing fine works, as Jesus said himself and I quoted above. He said:

"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works , and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16, NASB)

Believing involves an act of faith.


Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us . . . (Titus 3:5)

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

When Paul wrote the words that you quote, he was not talking about a Christian's good deeds for others, he was speaking concerning the Mosaic Law and how it does not save anyone anymore since Jesus put an end to it. The Law and good deeds are two different things.

"For Christ is the end of the Law..." (Romans 10:4)

"In his saying 'a new covenant,' he has made the former one obsolete." (Hebrews 8:13)

[myth-one.com]

Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Onewithhim then wrote that believing is "necessary but insufficient unless followed by good works."

I'll have to agree with Jesus, that whosoever believeth will have everlasting life.

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

No, Jesus said that "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I believe what Jesus said!

But you claim one must believe in Jesus and do good works. "Believing must be followed by good works" were your exact words.

So you are the one defining believing alone as Jesus claims, to be insufficient for salvation!

[Mae von H]

How is it possible for someone to think they are truly saved (based on their free will), but truly not be saved at all?

Proverbs 30:12 (KJV 1900)
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes,
And yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Matthew 7:22–23 (KJV 1900)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Acts 8:13 (KJV 1900)
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:21–23 (KJV 1900)
Thou (Simon) hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Same way it’s possible to get scammed out of your bank account. Same way it’s possible to think someone loves you but does not. There’s no special facility by which people are fooled into thinking they belong to him that kicks in as opposed to being deceived on other matters.

[onewithhim]

Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Onewithhim then wrote that believing is "necessary but insufficient unless followed by good works."

I'll have to agree with Jesus, that whosoever believeth will have everlasting life.

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

No, Jesus said that "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I believe what Jesus said!

But you claim one must believe in Jesus and do good works. "Believing must be followed by good works" were your exact words.

So you are the one defining believing alone as Jesus claims, to be insufficient for salvation!

Jesus said that he who DOES the will of his Father will enter the Kingdom. (Matthew 7:21) He and his apostles made it very clear that one must do works befitting their faith.

"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

"He [God] will render to each one according to his works." (Romans 2:6)

"A certain one will say: 'You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith BY my works.' You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. Do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is dead?" (James 2:18-20)

[myth-one.com]

Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Onewithhim then wrote that believing is "necessary but insufficient unless followed by good works."

I'll have to agree with Jesus, that whosoever believeth will have everlasting life.

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

No, Jesus said that "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I believe what Jesus said!

But you claim one must believe in Jesus and do good works. "Believing must be followed by good works" were your exact words.

So you are the one defining believing alone as Jesus claims, to be insufficient for salvation!

Jesus said that he who DOES the will of his Father will enter the Kingdom. (Matthew 7:21)

OK. So that verse does not state that good works must be done to gain everlasting life.

"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

Nor that verse.

"He [God] will render to each one according to his works." (Romans 2:6)

Nor that verse.

"A certain one will say: 'You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith BY my works.' You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. Do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is dead?" (James 2:18-20)

OK. Faith apart from works profits no one but that believer, who will receive everlasting life.

<====================================>

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . (Acts 16:30-31)

The word "works" is in neither of the verses which inform us how to gain everlasting life.

[onewithhim]

Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Onewithhim then wrote that believing is "necessary but insufficient unless followed by good works."

I'll have to agree with Jesus, that whosoever believeth will have everlasting life.

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

No, Jesus said that "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I believe what Jesus said!

But you claim one must believe in Jesus and do good works. "Believing must be followed by good works" were your exact words.

So you are the one defining believing alone as Jesus claims, to be insufficient for salvation!

Jesus said that he who DOES the will of his Father will enter the Kingdom. (Matthew 7:21)

OK. So that verse does not state that good works must be done to gain everlasting life.

"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

Nor that verse.

"He [God] will render to each one according to his works." (Romans 2:6)

Nor that verse.

"A certain one will say: 'You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith BY my works.' You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. Do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is dead?" (James 2:18-20)

OK. Faith apart from works profits no one but that believer, who will receive everlasting life.

<====================================>

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . (Acts 16:30-31)

The word "works" is in neither of the verses which inform us how to gain everlasting life.

So if what you are saying is true, anyone who believes will have everlasting life, right? Do the demons gain everlasting life?

[myth-one.com]

Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Onewithhim then wrote that believing is "necessary but insufficient unless followed by good works."

I'll have to agree with Jesus, that whosoever believeth will have everlasting life.

You insist on ignoring Jesus' own words. I can't understand that.

No, Jesus said that "whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I believe what Jesus said!

But you claim one must believe in Jesus and do good works. "Believing must be followed by good works" were your exact words.

So you are the one defining believing alone as Jesus claims, to be insufficient for salvation!

Jesus said that he who DOES the will of his Father will enter the Kingdom. (Matthew 7:21)

OK. So that verse does not state that good works must be done to gain everlasting life.

"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

Nor that verse.

"He [God] will render to each one according to his works." (Romans 2:6)

Nor that verse.

"A certain one will say: 'You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith BY my works.' You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. Do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is dead?" (James 2:18-20)

OK. Faith apart from works profits no one but that believer, who will receive everlasting life.

<====================================>

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . (Acts 16:30-31)

The word "works" is in neither of the verses which inform us how to gain everlasting life.

So if what you are saying is true, anyone who believes will have everlasting life, right? Do the demons gain everlasting life?

Any human who believes will gain everlasting spiritual bodied life at or after the Second Coming.

Demons, devils, and angels were created with everlasting spiritual bodied life. There is no need for them to gain another everlasting life. The spiritual body that they have will last forever and ever.