Israel at War with Hamas October 7, 2023

[Diogenes]

There is no question this was a horrific attack by Hamas on Israel that also endangers Palestinians.
To what extent are attacks like this inevitable, considering the history of Israel?

Isn't this just another example of how religious conflict breeds violence?
or
Is it inevitable that strongly held beliefs will always ignite the passions of some?

Perhaps the difference with religions that claim authority from God is that they inspire absolute beliefs, an absolute conviction they are 'right' and therefore anything is justifiable... including following God's orders to kill your own son.

Palestinian land stolen in 1948, more in 1967, then more every day in the West Bank makes acts of terrorism inevitable. Then Netanyahu put a right wing criminal in charge of the 'Ministry of Justice,' and... BIG SURPRISE! ... another war.
"If I go the to write indictment number one, it would go to Israel's Justice Minister YARIV LEVIN. He is the man who drove this insane, corrupt, dishonest effort to basically take over the power of the Supreme Court. With Netanyahu's help, he fractured Israel. He fractured Israeli society. He fractured the Israeli ministry, the military. He fractured the Israeli air force...."
__ Tom Friedman

https://www.rawstory.com/tom-friedman-i ... A-TIAtHv6Y

[ir001_david]

To my knowledge, the main thing that Israel has not done is to have consulted God prior to its retaliation. Although it is an Old Testament teaching, I would have thought that it applies in the New Testament as well. In one passage God tells them to attack, and then later on he tells them do not attack. "Because I will not drive them into your hands".

In another passage God says something like '"When you hear me walking on the tops of the trees then launch your attack."'

I do not know if it is God's will for Israel to be counter-attacking Hamas in self-defence. They might have consulted him, I do not know, but I have not read this anywhere. Besides, despite their no doubt being Christians in the Israeli armed forces, the political Israel is not the Biblical one.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Donray in post #250

You just want to support terrorist that only want to kill civilians.

Accusing is easier than arguing, isn't it?

Why won't Palestine tell Iseral they will return all hostages and allow Iseral in Gaza to destroy all tunnels and munitions? They want to continue the war.

Have you forgotten that Hamas controls the government in Gaza----and that Palestinian civilians are currently occupied with running for their lives?

Again you show your ignorance of miliary actions by saying Iseral should have destroyed the tunnels without going into Gaza. Tell me how. O, I forgot you don't know how.

I did tell you how. I mentioned the availability of subsurface detection technology.

[Donray]

[Replying to Donray in post #250

Again you show your ignorance of miliary actions by saying Iseral should have destroyed the tunnels without going into Gaza. Tell me how. O, I forgot you don't know how.

I did tell you how. I mentioned the availability of subsurface detection technology.

Tell me how this works and if Israel would need to invade Gaza to use it? Let's say that there is something that they can use from a helicopter. Are you saying it would be OK to fly this helicopter over Gaza without it being shot at?

And once they map out the tunnels what then?

You do show your ignorance of military operations and equipment.

So, let's hear how this subsurface detection works without Iseral invading Gaza to use it. Can it be used from a satellite? What about a plane flying at 20K feet over Gaza? How close to the ground must it be used?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Donray in post #253

Tell me how this works and if Israel would need to invade Gaza to use it? Let's say that there is something that they can use from a helicopter. Are you saying it would be OK to fly this helicopter over Gaza without it being shot at?

And once they map out the tunnels what then?

You do show your ignorance of military operations and equipment.

So, let's hear how this subsurface detection works without Iseral invading Gaza to use it. Can it be used from a satellite? What about a plane flying at 20K feet over Gaza? How close to the ground must it be used?

With its occupation of Gaza so firmly established, Israel should be able to search the border areas where tunnels must go into Gaza.

[alexxcJRO]

Have you heard that WAR IS HELL? Tell me some war ware civilians were not killed.

Completely ignoring that:
Half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise ‘dumb bombs'.
Accusation of an ongoing Genocide.
We have an disproportional situation where Israel military power/might is by far superior to Palestine military/might.
Israel controls Gaza's water and electricity supply. It controls Gaza's air and maritime space, as well as six of Gaza's seven land crossings.
We have an occupation type situation. .

We are in 2023 not in 1914 or 1940. Things have come along.

Palestine wanted war and started this war.

1.
Q: Really we are gonna ignore the rest of history? We have an ongoing war/conflict-type situation since 1948.

2.
One acts of terrorism-of evil and malevolence against the innocents does not justify committing other acts of evil and malevolence against the innocents.
Punishing the non-moral agents-innocent together with the moral agents-guilty is both illogical and evil and malevolent.

Keep in mind it is Palestine that said they want to eliminate Jews (genocide). Please point out where Israel has ever said they want to kill all Palestinians?

Q: Really you are gonna ask me that after I put the statements from Israeli officials?

Here again:
We have inflammatory, "genocidal", "ethnic cleansing" statements like:

“We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly,” Israel’s Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, said, describing the Israeli military’s response just days after Hamas’ attack. “We will eliminate everything - they will regret it,” Gallant added.
“You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible - we do remember,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell," Maj. Gen. Ghassan Alian, who heads the Israeli army’s Coordination of Government Activities in the Palestinian Territories (COGAT), declared.
“There is one and only (one) solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons,”.
“Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country".
Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party
“There should be two goals for this victory: One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel … After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom”.
Amit Halevi, Likud member in parliament
“Nakba? Expel them all,” “If the Egyptians care so much for them - they are welcome to have them wrapped in cellophane tied with a green ribbon.”
Nissim Vaturi, deputy speaker for Israel’s parliament.
“Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!”
Ariel Kallner, a member of Israel’s parliament
“It is time for Nakba 2.”Yinon Magal, a journalist and politician
“Your expectation is that tomorrow morning we’d drop what amounts to some kind of a nuclear bomb on all of Gaza, flattening them, eliminating everybody there,”.
Israeli Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu

The Nakba, which means “catastrophe” in Arabic, refers to the mass displacement and dispossession of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.


"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” ( 1 Samuel 15:3)


"23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land." (Genesis 19:23–25).

[Donray]

[Replying to alexxcJRO in post #255]

Tell me what "From the River to the Sea" means?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to alexxcJRO in post #255]

Tell me what "From the River to the Sea" means?

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2397 ... rael-hamas

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to alexxcJRO in post #255]

Tell me what "From the River to the Sea" means?

Completely ignoring all I said. Poor debate form.

Q: Why come here if your not actually wanting to engage in debate?



I know what it means: Before British mandate in 1922 for example we had what was known as Palestine land which started from the river Jorden in the East and ended with the Mediterranean sea in the West which was mostly populated by Arabs Muslims.


"According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[82]"
"Per McCarthy's estimate, in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[79] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... e_(region)

I think you meant the slogan: “From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free” which originated with Palestine Liberation Organization-PLO in 1968.
It means the restoration of old Palestine: establishment of a single state that extend from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea to encompass its historic past territories which off course means the dismantle of the state of Israel.