THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF "THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY"

[Eddie Ramos]

It's interesting that this is another widely held doctrine by Christians, yet no one has ever put forth an actual age from the scriptures where children are not accountable for their sins. The fact is that when God looks at a human being, he looks at their heart and sees either righteousness or unrighteousness. If righteousness, then that means that Christ's atoning work has been applied to your life. At which point he has given that person a new and perfect heart that is free from sin, and has raised their dead soul to eternal life. If God sees unrighteousness in their heart, then it means that Christ's atoning work has not (or not yet) been applied to that individual and that individual is still in his or her sins. This applies from the moment of conception.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Can something conceived in sin be pure and clean in the eyes of God? The Bible says, no.

Job 14:4 (KJV 1900)
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.

So, how does God view a child conceived and still unsaved? The same way he views a grown up who is still unsaved, as wicked.

Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)
The wicked are estranged from the womb:
They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Most will say, "babies can't speak, so this can't be referring to babies". Yet this is parabolic language (as is the whole Bible) which is speaking of the spiritual condition (as viewed by God) of mankind who was yet in his sins.

When the Bible as a whole is taken into acount, it absolutely contradicts and therefore rejects such doctrine of any age of accountability. But why then was it invented? Because it was build upon another false doctrine, the free will doctrine which states that a person must make an informed choice if he is going to accept Christ. And since babies can't do that, they had to find a way to make them exempt. But this goes to show what happpens when someone tries to build upon a crooked foundation, everything else they build on that foundation will also be crooked.

My question for anyone who hold to this doctrine is, can you show me how the scriptures you use to support such doctrine agree witht he above Bible verses provided? Because if we isolate passages from the Bible as a whole, then we can make them say anything we want.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #95]


And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

The devil will be cast into the lake of fire and be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

"This means the second death, the lake of fire." - Rev 20:14
The Devil is dead forever and ever.
Repeat yourself again and I will put you on my ignore list forever and I will never respond to you again for the rest of your life.

And when did the Devil suffer his first death?

"And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

When did death or the grave suffer its first death?

This is going to require some critical thinking on our part and paying close attention to the scriptures. Since death dying even once or even twice makes zero since, 2nd must mean different a type of death, separate from the 1st type, that being Adamic death. The difference is that with Admic death a person can be returned to live. "the Grave gave up the dead in them" Rev 20:13.<<<<This is the 1st type of death.

However, anything sentenced to the 2nd death, be it the a symbolic representation of world governments and false religion as in Rev 20:10, or a person or spirit creature that is sentenced to the second death there is no return.

Compare the two scriptures closely below showing the final destination for death.

1 Corinthians 15:26, "And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."
Compared with...
Revelation 20:14, "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

This can only mean that anything tossed into the lake of fire or the 2nd type of death is brought to nothing. If death's final fate is to be brought to nothing in the lake of fire and Satan's fate is to be tossed into the lake of fire too, it makes no since that Satan continues to live some how when the lake of fire for the first type of death means to be brought to nothing. This can only mean that Satan, like the grave and the first type of death, is brought to nothing. There is no return EVER from the 2nd death.

Do you believe that God can make beings which have everlasting life? (yes or no)

Yep. The Bible says so. One example is His son at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16.
There will be others to share in this honor as well.
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Rev 20:6

In contrast...

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality. In fact the second death has all authority over him.
The Bible is clear, that anything or anyone He can make can be unmade if He so chooses. Wicked people and angels are to go to the lake of fire.

[myth-one.com]

Do you believe that God can make beings which have everlasting life? (yes or no)

Yep. The Bible says so. One example is His son at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16.
There will be others to share in this honor as well.
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Rev 20:6

Correct!!

In contrast...

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Of course there is!!

In fact the second death has all authority over him.

God has all authority over him, and his punishment will be everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

The Bible is clear, that anything or anyone He can make can be unmade if He so chooses. Wicked people and angels are to go to the lake of fire.

If you mean God, then that is not true. God must abide by His everlasting covenants because God cannot lie:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus 1:2)

Under the New Testament Covenant, those humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior shall have everlasting life. There are no other conditions.

God cannot reject any true believer because of sin or any other reason.

And the lake of fire has no ill effects on someone who has everlasting spiritual bodied life. But it quickly kills those who do not have everlasting life.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #95]


And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

The devil will be cast into the lake of fire and be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

"This means the second death, the lake of fire." - Rev 20:14
The Devil is dead forever and ever.
Repeat yourself again and I will put you on my ignore list forever and I will never respond to you again for the rest of your life.

And when did the Devil suffer his first death?

"And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

When did death or the grave suffer its first death?

This is going to require some critical thinking on our part and paying close attention to the scriptures. Since death dying even once or even twice makes zero since, 2nd must mean different a type of death, separate from the 1st type, that being Adamic death. The difference is that with Admic death a person can be returned to live. "the Grave gave up the dead in them" Rev 20:13.<<<<This is the 1st type of death.

However, anything sentenced to the 2nd death, be it the a symbolic representation of world governments and false religion as in Rev 20:10, or a person or spirit creature that is sentenced to the second death there is no return.

Compare the two scriptures closely below showing the final destination for death.

1 Corinthians 15:26, "And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."
Compared with...
Revelation 20:14, "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

This can only mean that anything tossed into the lake of fire or the 2nd type of death is brought to nothing. If death's final fate is to be brought to nothing in the lake of fire and Satan's fate is to be tossed into the lake of fire too, it makes no since that Satan continues to live some how when the lake of fire for the first type of death means to be brought to nothing. This can only mean that Satan, like the grave and the first type of death, is brought to nothing. There is no return EVER from the 2nd death.

Do you believe that God can make beings which have everlasting life? (yes or no)

Yep. The Bible says so. One example is His son at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16.
There will be others to share in this honor as well.
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Rev 20:6

In contrast...

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality. In fact the second death has all authority over him.
The Bible is clear, that anything or anyone He can make can be unmade if He so chooses. Wicked people and angels are to go to the lake of fire.

This is spot-on. God made beings who could have been blessed with everlasting life, if they had remained faithful. They had nothing to worry about unless they betrayed their Maker. So He did make humans to live forever. He did not make angels immortal, as I Timothy 6:16 brings out. Only one Being was immortal at that time, therefore, all the other angels were not immortal, and neither were humans. Since the realization of the class of humans that will reign with Christ--his anointed followers--there have been being resurrected those anointed beings, and, as Rev.20:6 brings out, they will rule with Christ, and they will have immortality (I Corinthians 15: 53,54).

It is true that no one will live through the 2nd death. It is symbolic of complete destruction. Humans and angels who proved themselves wicked will DIE---not live on in a fiery lake. "The wages of sin is DEATH," not life forever roasting in a fire. (Romans 6:23)

[myth-one.com]

God made beings who could have been blessed with everlasting life, if they had remained faithful. They had nothing to worry about unless they betrayed their Maker. So He did make humans to live forever.

If God had made man immortal, then the wages of their sins could never be death. But the wages of sin in regards to mankind is death:

...the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23)

So God did not make mankind immortal.

He did not make angels immortal.

Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)

If born again Christians are equal unto the angels, in that they can never die any more, then the angels are immortal.

I Timothy 6:16 brings out. Only one Being was immortal at that time, therefore, all the other angels were not immortal, and neither were humans.

Jesus was not immortal at that time. He was the only human who hath an inheritance of everlasting life which He gained by living a sinless life under the Old Testament Covenant. His name is written in the Book of Life as an inheritor of everlasting life. And He can do whatever He pleases with His inheritance.

The wages of sin is DEATH," not life forever roasting in a fire. (Romans 6:23)

The wages of sin is death for mankind. Humans cast into the lake of fire die instantly, never to live again.

And spiritual beings consigned to the lake of fire do not have any physical pain -- as they are not human.

Where do you get the "life forever roasting in a fire" bit?

[2timothy316]

Do you believe that God can make beings which have everlasting life? (yes or no)

Yep. The Bible says so. One example is His son at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16.
There will be others to share in this honor as well.
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Rev 20:6

Correct!!

In contrast...

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Of course there is!!

These are your words and I do no view your word as true.

In fact the second death has all authority over him.

God has all authority over him, and his punishment will be everlasting torment in the lake of fire.

"This means the second death, the lake of fire."

The Bible is clear, that anything or anyone He can make can be unmade if He so chooses. Wicked people and angels are to go to the lake of fire.

If you mean God, then that is not true. God must abide by His everlasting covenants because God cannot lie:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus 1:2)

Show me in the Bible God gave Satan eternal life. Book chapter and scripture.

Under the New Testament Covenant, those humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior shall have everlasting life. There are no other conditions.

God cannot reject any true believer because of sin or any other reason.

And the lake of fire has no ill effects on someone who has everlasting spiritual bodied life. But it quickly kills those who do not have everlasting life.

Can anyone be erased from the book of life?
Is Satan's name written in the Book life? Yes or no.

[myth-one.com]

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Here is the most direct proof:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

Show me in the Bible where God gave Satan eternal life. Book chapter and scripture.

Satan is immortal. He was created that way by being born of God as a spirit. When or where that occurred is irrelevant. It was probably when God created the earth.

Can anyone be erased from the book of life?

Names that are in the Book of Life can be erased.

Is Satan's name written in the Book life? Yes or no.

No. Why would it be? He is already immortal! Once immortal, always immortal.

The Book of Life contains the names of those who shall be made immortal in the future.

[2timothy316]

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Here is the most direct proof:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

Show me in the Bible where God gave Satan eternal life. Book chapter and scripture.

Satan is immortal. He was created that way by being born of God as a spirit. When or where that occurred is irrelevant. It was probably when God created the earth.

Can anyone be erased from the book of life?

Names that are in the Book of Life can be erased.

Is Satan's name written in the Book life? Yes or no.

No. Why would it be? He is already immortal! Once immortal, always immortal.

Where in the Bible does it say that he is immortal? Where does it say that anyone in the lake of fire can live when it is called the 2nd death? You still have not provided scriptures to back up your dogma. And if you don't in your next post you're going on my ignore list.

[myth-one.com]

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Here is the most direct proof:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

Show me in the Bible where God gave Satan eternal life. Book chapter and scripture.

Satan is immortal. He was created that way by being born of God as a spirit. When or where that occurred is irrelevant. It was probably when God created the earth.

Can anyone be erased from the book of life?

Names that are in the Book of Life can be erased.

Is Satan's name written in the Book life? Yes or no.

No. Why would it be? He is already immortal! Once immortal, always immortal.

Where in the Bible does it say that he is immortal? Where does it say that anyone in the lake of fire can live when it is called the 2nd death? You still have not provided scriptures to back up your dogma.

If someone is tormented day and night for ever and ever, are they alive?

yes or no.

And if you don't in your next post you're going on my ignore list.

For ever and ever?

[2timothy316]

There is nothing in the Bible that says Satan has immortality.

Here is the most direct proof:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

Show me in the Bible where God gave Satan eternal life. Book chapter and scripture.

Satan is immortal. He was created that way by being born of God as a spirit. When or where that occurred is irrelevant. It was probably when God created the earth.

Can anyone be erased from the book of life?

Names that are in the Book of Life can be erased.

Is Satan's name written in the Book life? Yes or no.

No. Why would it be? He is already immortal! Once immortal, always immortal.

Where in the Bible does it say that he is immortal? Where does it say that anyone in the lake of fire can live when it is called the 2nd death? You still have not provided scriptures to back up your dogma.

If someone is tormented day and night for ever and ever, are they alive?

yes or no.

No. No more alive than the beast and the false profit.

And if you don't in your next post you're going on my ignore list.

For ever and ever?

Welcome to my ignore list as your replies are fruitless and unscriptural. Don't worry about replying to this post as I will not see it.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #108]

The word "torment" is a word in Greek ---basanizo---and is used in the Scriptures a number of times. One example is the sailing of a boat in bad weather....it is a difficult job. We might say that the boat is being prevented from sailing on its chosen course. (Matt.14:24) A word associated with that is basanistes (Matt.18:34) and is translated as jailers in some translations and "tormentors" in others.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1960, Vol. V, p.2999) said this:

"Probably THE IMPRISONMENT ITSELF WAS REGARDED AS 'TORMENT' and the tormentors need mean nothing but 'jailers.'"

So we have Satan and the demons being "jailed" in a sense, by being put into the symbolic lake of fire. They are thus unable to do anything. That is what happens when someone is jailed. Their plans are brought to an end. So the demons will be cut off from their life-course and will be dead, so they won't be able to do anything. Not even scream in pain in a lake of fire. "Dead" means actual death, not being alive somewhere in pain. Satan's imprisonment means death. If he is dead, he is not immortal.