Jesus is God - firstborn psalm 89

[Wootah]

27Indeed, I myself made him the firstborn,
the highest of the kings of the earth.
28 I will show my gracious love toward him forever,
since my covenant is securely established with him.
29 I will establish his dynasty forever,
and his throne as long as heaven endures.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created,
things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers.
All things have been created through him and for him.
17 He himself existed before anything else did,
and he holds all things together.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

In psalm 89 God is talking about David (verse 3) and making David the highest of the kings of the Earth. The in verse 27 God calls David is firstborn. We know that David was not firstborn in family and this means that firstborn means the one God has chosen to be pre-eminent.

In Colossians we can now understand that firstborn is how God views Jesus, pre-eminent.

Is this proof that since firstborn is used about David and we know he was not first born physically that the Bible is not claiming Jesus is created by God as a first child but being given pre-eminence above all things?

youtube:

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS JESUS THE FIRST OR THE MOST PREEMINENT OF CRÉATION?

He was both. Even if "firstborn" were taken as "foremost or highest" (as in the case of King David) it STILL would be according to the pattern of Psalm 89, the "foremost or highest" OF SAID GROUP. So the highest (or preminent) of the KINGS is still a King. And the higher or preminent of creation would still a created being.

That SAID now, let us look at what Psalm 89 is really saying ....



WHY IS DAVID CALLED THE FIRSTBORN (prototokos)?

And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth -- Psalm 89:28,

This scripture is clearly not giving a new lexical meaning to prototokos but simply showing that God has the right to put David in the position a firstborn (compare 1 Chronicles 26:1-2 and 2 Chronicles 21:3). Scripturally the firstborn in a family was almost invariably given a position of preeminence but that position was not automatic. Take for example the case of Reuben, Jacob's literal first-born; he lost *pre-eminence* but he continued to be known as the "first-born" (prototokos in the Septuagint) of the family - see Gen. 49:3, 4; 1 Chronicles 5:1-3 RSV. So Psalms is not giving a new or alternative meaning to the world "firsborn" only showing the rights and privileges ATTACHED to that position can on occassion be given (or taken away).

To illustrate: Take the meaning of the word "whore" (or prostitute). The meaning of the word is essentially someone that exchanges sexual favors for money. If a politician, forced to accept illegal money inexchange for political power said that his benefactor is "making a whore out of him" does this mean that the word "whore" can mean prostitute OR politician? Can one legitimately have a definition for whore "one that runs for any kind of political office"? Obviously not, the meaning of the word remains unchanged but the actions have resulted in the subject being submitted to similar feelings of degredation.

That God declared David "firsborn" does not mean the word has two different meanings, only that God's actions have resulted in David having the same rights and privileges of someone who is the born first, even though he was in fact the youngest.


FURTHER READING
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.fr/ ... l-115.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200312032221 ... otokos.htm

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

COLOSSIANS 1 v15-17 , JESUS ROLE IN CREATION and ... "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

I disagree that firstborn can mean both. it either means nothing special, this is my first child, this is my second child OR it means something else.

Given how many stories like Jacob and Esau but others have a first child not the first born, or David or Joseph and on and on when do you accept the story the Bible is telling and not the one you want to tell?

In psalm 89 what is the meaning of firstborn?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

I disagree that firstborn can mean both.

Nobody said that firstborn means both. FIRSTborn means in temporal terms, the first of those born.

...it either means nothing special [...] OR it means something else.

This is a false dichotomy. Biblically, the firstborn was always special being the eldest and normally that entailed special privileges and responsibilities. For God those "special privileges and responsibilities" could be transfered from the firstborn (The elders son) to another, which was the case for Jacob and Esau, David , Joseph and others.

In psalm 89 what is the meaning of firstborn?

Already explained - See post #2

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4]

That God declared David "firsborn" does not mean the word has two different meanings, only that God's actions have resulted in David having the same rights and privileges of someone who is the born first, even though he was in fact the youngest.

It's inane. Of course the first born has all the honours, but not necessarily the first child.

Don't make me list out all the examples (although that would be good for me to do).

Genesis 3 - Cain firstborn, Abel second found favour

In psalm 89 according to God which usage does God have in mind, first child or preeminence?

[JehovahsWitness]

...the first born has all the honours, but not necessarily the first child.

I do not understand this sentence. Are you suggesting there is a significance in the difference between the term "first born" and "first child". Please define both and then explain what your point is as I really do not understand what you are trying to say.

In psalm 89 according to God which usage does God have in mind, first child or preeminence?

This is a false dichotomy.

See post #2 for a full explanation of PSALMS 89

[Wootah]

...the first born has all the honours, but not necessarily the first child.

I do not understand this sentence. Are you suggesting there is a significance in the difference between the term "first born" and "first child". Please define both and then explain what your point is as I really do not understand what you are trying to say.

The first child is the first child the first born is the one who is favoured (has preeminence) over the other children. Often the first child is the first born because most families are unwise in this.

[JehovahsWitness]

The first child is the first child the first born is the one who is favoured (has preeminence) over the other children. Often the first child is the first born because most families are unwise in this.

Please present the SCRIPTURES (CHAPTER and verse) that support your conclusion. Im particulary interested in seeing the expression "first child" in scripture so I can check the Hebrew/Greek.

[Wootah]

NIV makes the point clearer

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

https://biblehub.com/psalms/89-27.htm#lexicon
appoint him as
אֶתְּנֵ֑הוּ (’et·tə·nê·hū)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - first person common singular | third person masculine singular
Strong's 5414: To give, put, set

God appointed Jesus the firstborn, not by birth but by putting him there. The highest of Kings, indicating further this is not birth but ranking of Kings.

Firstborn is just not talking about birth position when it is talking about Jesus or biblically.

[JehovahsWitness]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
[Psalm 89:] 27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

God appointed Jesus the firstborn, not by birth but by putting him there. ...

Psalm 89:26 is speaking about David (not Jesus) . David was not the firstborn but was given the position of FIRSTBORN. But The verse is not changing the meaning of the word "firstborn".

Its like if a man married his horse, and says "I will make this horse my wife" that doesnt mean the word "wife" means a fourlegged animal you keep in the barn, nor does it mean that the word WIFE and HORSE are interchangeable.. . it just means the man is now going to attribute the position and privileges of wife to his horse.

If the privileges of being a wife is the legal right to inherit everything a man has when he dies.
And the privileges of firstborn means you have the highest position of blessing and power.

The willfull attribution of the above does not change the original meaning of the word.

• WIFE still means marriage parnter

• FIRSTBORN still means first produced

Just because one can attribute the privileges of these position to whoever you choose doesnt change the meaning of the word.