Greetings to all,
It is interesting to see the many and varied suppositions, guesses, speculations, calculations and deductive conclusions that so many arrive at when the clear fact is that all of these are based on fragmentary evidence or the private interpretation of others. Note: this was a topic originally discussed in the Apologetics forum.
Is it not clearly time for all to put away all these supported conception theories? God does not always give us a complete account of things, but does give us understanding based on our spiritual preparedness. (The last time I checked it appears that God usually gives us the answers needed line upon line and precept upon precept.) They vast majority have placed their own self determination,ined "gag order" upon themselves and have by their own choice refused to receive further revelation from God. With this man made approach, man has therefore closed the window of knowledge which could otherwise be obtained only by recvelation from God.
Therefore man is left to his own deductive "private" interpretation and reasoning by this approach which results in the "blind leading the blind" quagmire.
The Jewish leaders of the day falsely accused Christ of being a "bastard child " born out of wedlock. Many today also hold to this same self imposed blind conclusion.
My position is clearly that "Jesus Christ is the only legitimate son of God born of the Father in the flesh." Having said that, it is obvious that "Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father." For anyone to argue otherwise one would also place themselves in the same "private interpretation" which the the Jewish leaders placed themselves.
Kind regards,
RW
The Virgin Birth
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #21When you say God are you refering to Almighty God the Father (Yahweh ) JEHOVAH? If you are refering to Jehovah then my answer is .... "God is a spirit". I cannot go beyond scripture , I hope that is enough for you.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #22Post #4
Post
by Eddie Ramos » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:45 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:18 am
Dear Eddie,
My first question to you is:
My response: Was "Jesus Christ the son of God the Father who is the "Highest"?
I'd be glad to answer as best as I am able. Jesus Christ was absolutely the Son of the Father. As far as the Father being the "highest", that position is denoted in the scriptures, especially by Christ himself. “
John 14:28 (KJV 1900)
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
But the problem I find most of the time, is that people always lean on particular scriptures which declare a position that they want to believe. And in approaching the Bible this way, God, in his infinite wisdom, provides them with what they seek. But He does this as both a test and a snare. A test, because he wants to see if the Bible student will follow his own way of understanding the Bible, or if they will follow God's own methodology (as laid out in the scriptures) for coming to a harmonious truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV 1900)
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
And a snare, because the Word of God was written to be a stumbling stone to those who do not truly possess the Spirit of God.
1 Peter 2:7–8 (KJV 1900)
Unto you therefore which believe he (Christ) is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
But what happens when we dare to seek for truth (and are able to in fact see it) is that we will understand that the Almighty JEHOVAH, the Highest, humbled himself because he was the only one who could pay for the sins of those he chose to redeem from the curse of the law. He did this by emptying himself of all his glory, which is the reason JEHOVAH, as the Christ, always spoke as if he were beneath the Father. And in the person of Christ, he was. The Almighty JEHOVAH became as a servant in the flesh. How humbling is that?
My response:
Eddie, I would agree with you on most points. I would however respectfully disagree on your claim that Jehovah is “the most high God” for he was yet a spirit born son of God the father (Eloheim). (You cannot provide any evidence of a mortal or physical body birth regarding the premortal Messiah.)
However I understand also that he spake in the first person by divine investiture as “the highest”. You should remember that Christ clearly testified that his father was “greater than he”. Also it is obvious that he could not receive “all that the Father hath”, unless the father was greater than he.
Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900)
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
So, when we put al the pieces together, the only conclusion which harmonizes with all the the Bible has to say on this matter is that the Christ is JEHOVAH in the flesh.
My response: On this point I fully agree…
Jeremiah 23:6 (KJV 1900)
In his days (In the days of Christ) Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name (Christ's name) whereby he shall be called, JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
The name of the Christ is JEHOVAH.
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:18 am
My response: I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU 100% 0ON THIS POINT.
Second question:
You said: "Because Christ is God in the flesh, he did not need to be born again, as we fallen humans did. But we can see that the process was the same. The seed to bring about life was none other than the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. " Did Christ in his premortal state have a body of flesh and bone? I ask this because it appears that you suggest that he did not need to be born again.
My response: The scriptures make it very clear that God the Father (Eloheim) is indeed the father of the spirits of all flesh. We all are spirit children of God. Jesus Christ was no exception. The premortal Messiah administered the divine plan of redemption, salvation and exaltation in this state. He indeed is the exemplar for all of us. This mortal probation was absolutely a necessary step in our eternal progression, since it set in motion the mission of the redeemer and the atonement for which Christ was foreordained to this very mission before the foundations of this earth were organized. Without the “fall” this did not happen. This divine plan for a savior was not by chance. The word of God the Father could not return unto him empty. In other words the “fall” was a necessity required to fulfill the divine plan for the “atonement”. Not only that, but it fulfilled the mighty resurrection for all of us that was provided by Jesus Christ.
We need to remember that we in our premortal state as spirit children of God were sent to this earth to gain our physical body and to be tried and tested to exercise our God given power of agency as a vital part of our eternal progression. We all should remember that this divine gift of agency allowed us the freedom to act and not be acted upon. This portion of our eternal existence is the ultimate test for each of us to achieve our maximum purpose and destiny as spirit children of God. So yes even the great Messiah (Jehovah) , in the meridian of time had the experience of being born of mortal woman and the literal offspring of God the Father in the flesh. What a glorious situation where now the mighty premortal Messiah was now able to fulfill his mission as the mortal messiah!
The above is my understanding and take on our redeemer. You have the full power of agency to agree or disagree.
I will leave my additional responses to your post at a later time.
Kind regards,
RW
Post
by Eddie Ramos » Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:45 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:18 am
Dear Eddie,
My first question to you is:
My response: Was "Jesus Christ the son of God the Father who is the "Highest"?
I'd be glad to answer as best as I am able. Jesus Christ was absolutely the Son of the Father. As far as the Father being the "highest", that position is denoted in the scriptures, especially by Christ himself. “
John 14:28 (KJV 1900)
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
But the problem I find most of the time, is that people always lean on particular scriptures which declare a position that they want to believe. And in approaching the Bible this way, God, in his infinite wisdom, provides them with what they seek. But He does this as both a test and a snare. A test, because he wants to see if the Bible student will follow his own way of understanding the Bible, or if they will follow God's own methodology (as laid out in the scriptures) for coming to a harmonious truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV 1900)
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
And a snare, because the Word of God was written to be a stumbling stone to those who do not truly possess the Spirit of God.
1 Peter 2:7–8 (KJV 1900)
Unto you therefore which believe he (Christ) is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
But what happens when we dare to seek for truth (and are able to in fact see it) is that we will understand that the Almighty JEHOVAH, the Highest, humbled himself because he was the only one who could pay for the sins of those he chose to redeem from the curse of the law. He did this by emptying himself of all his glory, which is the reason JEHOVAH, as the Christ, always spoke as if he were beneath the Father. And in the person of Christ, he was. The Almighty JEHOVAH became as a servant in the flesh. How humbling is that?
My response:
Eddie, I would agree with you on most points. I would however respectfully disagree on your claim that Jehovah is “the most high God” for he was yet a spirit born son of God the father (Eloheim). (You cannot provide any evidence of a mortal or physical body birth regarding the premortal Messiah.)
However I understand also that he spake in the first person by divine investiture as “the highest”. You should remember that Christ clearly testified that his father was “greater than he”. Also it is obvious that he could not receive “all that the Father hath”, unless the father was greater than he.
Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900)
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
So, when we put al the pieces together, the only conclusion which harmonizes with all the the Bible has to say on this matter is that the Christ is JEHOVAH in the flesh.
My response: On this point I fully agree…
Jeremiah 23:6 (KJV 1900)
In his days (In the days of Christ) Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name (Christ's name) whereby he shall be called, JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
The name of the Christ is JEHOVAH.
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:18 am
My response: I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU 100% 0ON THIS POINT.
Second question:
You said: "Because Christ is God in the flesh, he did not need to be born again, as we fallen humans did. But we can see that the process was the same. The seed to bring about life was none other than the incorruptible seed of the Word of God. " Did Christ in his premortal state have a body of flesh and bone? I ask this because it appears that you suggest that he did not need to be born again.
My response: The scriptures make it very clear that God the Father (Eloheim) is indeed the father of the spirits of all flesh. We all are spirit children of God. Jesus Christ was no exception. The premortal Messiah administered the divine plan of redemption, salvation and exaltation in this state. He indeed is the exemplar for all of us. This mortal probation was absolutely a necessary step in our eternal progression, since it set in motion the mission of the redeemer and the atonement for which Christ was foreordained to this very mission before the foundations of this earth were organized. Without the “fall” this did not happen. This divine plan for a savior was not by chance. The word of God the Father could not return unto him empty. In other words the “fall” was a necessity required to fulfill the divine plan for the “atonement”. Not only that, but it fulfilled the mighty resurrection for all of us that was provided by Jesus Christ.
We need to remember that we in our premortal state as spirit children of God were sent to this earth to gain our physical body and to be tried and tested to exercise our God given power of agency as a vital part of our eternal progression. We all should remember that this divine gift of agency allowed us the freedom to act and not be acted upon. This portion of our eternal existence is the ultimate test for each of us to achieve our maximum purpose and destiny as spirit children of God. So yes even the great Messiah (Jehovah) , in the meridian of time had the experience of being born of mortal woman and the literal offspring of God the Father in the flesh. What a glorious situation where now the mighty premortal Messiah was now able to fulfill his mission as the mortal messiah!
The above is my understanding and take on our redeemer. You have the full power of agency to agree or disagree.
I will leave my additional responses to your post at a later time.
Kind regards,
RW
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #23Dear myth one.com,
I quote your post #6:
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #6
Post
by myth-one.com » Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:27 am
Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father.
We are instructed to pray to "our Father which art in Heaven." So God the Father is in Heaven.
If God is in Heaven, then He has no wife as there is no marriage in the Kingdom of God in Heaven:
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)
God created marriage to produce families. The sexual act within marriage procreates the human race. In the Kingdom of God, there are no humans and thus no marriage. There we will be like the angels which live forever. Since angels live forever, there is no need to reproduce themselves; and thus no need for marriage.
My response:
Was Christ indeed the legitimate son of God the Father? A simple yes or no will do.
Kind regards,
RW
I quote your post #6:
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #6
Post
by myth-one.com » Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:27 am
Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father.
We are instructed to pray to "our Father which art in Heaven." So God the Father is in Heaven.
If God is in Heaven, then He has no wife as there is no marriage in the Kingdom of God in Heaven:
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)
God created marriage to produce families. The sexual act within marriage procreates the human race. In the Kingdom of God, there are no humans and thus no marriage. There we will be like the angels which live forever. Since angels live forever, there is no need to reproduce themselves; and thus no need for marriage.
My response:
Was Christ indeed the legitimate son of God the Father? A simple yes or no will do.
Kind regards,
RW
-
Revelations won
- Sage
- Posts: 842
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
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- Been thanked: 27 times
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #24Dear myth one.com,
I quote your post #6:
THE VIRGIN BIRTH
Post #6
Post
by myth-one.com » Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:27 am
“Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father.”
We are instructed to pray to "our Father which art in Heaven." So God the Father is in Heaven.
My response: I agree with you completely on this point.
If God is in Heaven, then He has no wife as there is no marriage in the Kingdom of God in Heaven:
My response: I also respectfully categorically agree with you in part on your above statement.
I also respectfully disagree with you on this point as explained below:
“For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)”
My response:
Your above quote from Mark is correct and applies to most marriages. I say this for two reasons. First almost all marriages are valid until death. In
other words the one performing the marriage has no authority or power to perform otherwise. This type of marriage terminates in an automatic divorce at death.
Also according to the above quoted scripture it is very clear that when those that have died and are resurrected, that they “neither marry or are given in mariage”. It is also very clear that these resurrected individuals are “as the angels which are in heaven”.
Jesus Christ is a great high priest forever after the order of Melchisedek forever.
He also has the power to delegate the rights , authority and power to men who are legal administrators on earth as shown in the account of Peter:
Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Hebrews 6:20
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
We next observe what Christ gave unto Peter on the mount:
Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Without this mighty sealing power one can marry for time only. There are no substitutes that have any efficacy , virtue or force beyond the grave. It is only by this power that we can be :
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
God created marriage to produce families. The sexual act within marriage procreates the human race. In the Kingdom of God, there are no humans and thus no marriage. There we will be like the angels which live forever. Since angels live forever, there is no need to reproduce themselves; and thus no need for marriage.
My response:
I do not see your claim that none of us humans can enter the kingdom of God. Do not the scriptures testify otherwise?
Daniel 7:27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.
Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
1 Thessalonians 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luke 6:20
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 6:10
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 14:15
And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Also you have still not answered the following question:
Was Christ indeed the legitimate son of God the Father? A simple yes or no will do.
Kind regards,
RW
I quote your post #6:
THE VIRGIN BIRTH
Post #6
Post
by myth-one.com » Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:27 am
“Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father.”
We are instructed to pray to "our Father which art in Heaven." So God the Father is in Heaven.
My response: I agree with you completely on this point.
If God is in Heaven, then He has no wife as there is no marriage in the Kingdom of God in Heaven:
My response: I also respectfully categorically agree with you in part on your above statement.
I also respectfully disagree with you on this point as explained below:
“For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25)”
My response:
Your above quote from Mark is correct and applies to most marriages. I say this for two reasons. First almost all marriages are valid until death. In
other words the one performing the marriage has no authority or power to perform otherwise. This type of marriage terminates in an automatic divorce at death.
Also according to the above quoted scripture it is very clear that when those that have died and are resurrected, that they “neither marry or are given in mariage”. It is also very clear that these resurrected individuals are “as the angels which are in heaven”.
Jesus Christ is a great high priest forever after the order of Melchisedek forever.
He also has the power to delegate the rights , authority and power to men who are legal administrators on earth as shown in the account of Peter:
Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7:26
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Hebrews 6:20
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
We next observe what Christ gave unto Peter on the mount:
Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Without this mighty sealing power one can marry for time only. There are no substitutes that have any efficacy , virtue or force beyond the grave. It is only by this power that we can be :
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
God created marriage to produce families. The sexual act within marriage procreates the human race. In the Kingdom of God, there are no humans and thus no marriage. There we will be like the angels which live forever. Since angels live forever, there is no need to reproduce themselves; and thus no need for marriage.
My response:
I do not see your claim that none of us humans can enter the kingdom of God. Do not the scriptures testify otherwise?
Daniel 7:27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.
Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
1 Thessalonians 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luke 6:20
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 6:10
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 14:15
And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Also you have still not answered the following question:
Was Christ indeed the legitimate son of God the Father? A simple yes or no will do.
Kind regards,
RW
-
Revelations won
- Sage
- Posts: 842
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 27 times
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #25Dear Onewithhim,
Perhaps I have some how missed your response to my earlier questions. Or maybe you have inadvertently overlooked my questions.
I guess I can better or more clearly respond to your questions if you can clearly state your clear definition of the corporal nature of the God or Godhood you worship is.
i.e.
1 Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can be saved and exalted
In the kingdom of God without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers.
Kind regards,
RW
Perhaps I have some how missed your response to my earlier questions. Or maybe you have inadvertently overlooked my questions.
I guess I can better or more clearly respond to your questions if you can clearly state your clear definition of the corporal nature of the God or Godhood you worship is.
i.e.
1 Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can be saved and exalted
In the kingdom of God without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers.
Kind regards,
RW
-
Revelations won
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #26Dear Onewithhim and all other JW's,
In my last post I asked:
"
1 Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can be saved and exalted
In the kingdom of God without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers."
Since you reject any and all current or future revelation it is very obvious that your answers to these above questions are simply your own private interpretations of scripture. Good luck and I am looking forward to your man made answers.
Kind regards,
RW
In my last post I asked:
"
1 Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can be saved and exalted
In the kingdom of God without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers."
Since you reject any and all current or future revelation it is very obvious that your answers to these above questions are simply your own private interpretations of scripture. Good luck and I am looking forward to your man made answers.
Kind regards,
RW
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onewithhim
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #27You are clearly not paying attention to what the Scriptures say. Mary is not the wife of Jehovah. She had Joseph for a husband. Jehovah's power/holy spirit came upon Mary and she became pregnant. It was no fleshly encounter.Revelations won wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:27 am Greetings to all,
It is interesting to see the many and varied suppositions, guesses, speculations, calculations and deductive conclusions that so many arrive at when the clear fact is that all of these are based on fragmentary evidence or the private interpretation of others. Note: this was a topic originally discussed in the Apologetics forum.
Is it not clearly time for all to put away all these supported conception theories? God does not always give us a complete account of things, but does give us understanding based on our spiritual preparedness. (The last time I checked it appears that God usually gives us the answers needed line upon line and precept upon precept.) They vast majority have placed their own self determination,ined "gag order" upon themselves and have by their own choice refused to receive further revelation from God. With this man made approach, man has therefore closed the window of knowledge which could otherwise be obtained only by recvelation from God.
Therefore man is left to his own deductive "private" interpretation and reasoning by this approach which results in the "blind leading the blind" quagmire.
The Jewish leaders of the day falsely accused Christ of being a "bastard child " born out of wedlock. Many today also hold to this same self imposed blind conclusion.
My position is clearly that "Jesus Christ is the only legitimate son of God born of the Father in the flesh." Having said that, it is obvious that "Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father." For anyone to argue otherwise one would also place themselves in the same "private interpretation" which the the Jewish leaders placed themselves.
Kind regards,
RW
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #28Dear Onewithhim,
I never said that Mary was the wife of Jehovah. That is an incorrect assumption of your manufacture.
I never said that Mary was the wife of Jehovah. That is an incorrect assumption of your manufacture.
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Revelations won
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #29Dear onewithhim,
You claim the Christ is the son of the Holy Ghost.
You also by your statement deny that Christ is not the son of God.
You claim the Christ is the son of the Holy Ghost.
You also by your statement deny that Christ is not the son of God.
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onewithhim
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #30Christ is the Son of GOD, not Son of the Holy Ghost.Revelations won wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:17 am Dear onewithhim,
You claim the Christ is the son of the Holy Ghost.
You also by your statement deny that Christ is not the son of God.
I do NOT deny that Christ is the Son God. Have you ever read any of my posts? I and a handful of others on these threads write constantly that fact, though others deny Christ is God's Son and say he is God.
