What is a REAL Man?

[boatsnguitars]

When someone says, "Now there's a REAL Man!" Or, when someone says, "Now that's a Manly Man!"

What is it that makes a Man?

There is a lot of talk about the "feminization" of men, and I don't know what this means. Was Sean Connery a "real man"? Is Andrew Tate?

When we talk about what makes a man, what do we mean? Is it biological? Cultural? Something else?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #1]

I definitely think you've got two different ideas there. There is what makes someone a biological male and what culture means by a "real man". I think the first has a clear scientific answer, while the second is just a bunch of garbage from any sector that has said "such-and-such" is what it means to be a "real" man.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #1]

I definitely think you've got two different ideas there. There is what makes someone a biological male and what culture means by a "real man". I think the first has a clear scientific answer, while the second is just a bunch of garbage from any sector that has said "such-and-such" is what it means to be a "real" man.

Perhaps, but it certainly seems to mean something to a lot of people - even to the point that they seem to agree on the general idea.

I'm not interested in discussing the Trans argument here - which we've covered elsewhere. I'm interested in the many conversations I've had or heard when people talk about what a "real man" is. When they talk about the 'feminization" of the American man. It's very common from the Right Wing. They seem to believe a real man exhibits "big D energy", or is sexist, or violent, or at least, has the potential for violence.

I'm curious because it seems to be very opposite to Jesus, for example, but also, seems to be exactly the type of people we think of as the worst in our enemies: aggressive, combative, sexist, misogynist, etc.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #3]

I'm completely with you there.

[AgnosticBoy]

When someone says, "Now there's a REAL Man!" Or, when someone says, "Now that's a Manly Man!"

What is it that makes a Man?

There is a lot of talk about the "feminization" of men, and I don't know what this means. Was Sean Connery a "real man"? Is Andrew Tate?

When we talk about what makes a man, what do we mean? Is it biological? Cultural? Something else?

When people rail against traditional gender roles, they are probably referring mostly to the negative aspects of it. Otherwise, what I find is that both sexes are attracted to gender roles (at least the positive ones). From my experience as a man, I often hear women saying "he's such a gentlemen" or "he's a real man or good man". I find plenty of women that are attracted to masculine qualities, like when men hold the door open for them, pay for the date, give them special treatment/attention, etc. It's not to say that women can't do a lot of these things, but many like it when a man steps into those roles and want to do it for them.

Gender roles can be the most romantic and loving role play that life has to offer. Without it, life would be boring.

[boatsnguitars]

When someone says, "Now there's a REAL Man!" Or, when someone says, "Now that's a Manly Man!"

What is it that makes a Man?

There is a lot of talk about the "feminization" of men, and I don't know what this means. Was Sean Connery a "real man"? Is Andrew Tate?

When we talk about what makes a man, what do we mean? Is it biological? Cultural? Something else?

When people rail against traditional gender roles, they are probably referring mostly to the negative aspects of it. Otherwise, what I find is that both sexes are attracted to gender roles (at least the positive ones). From my experience as a male, I often hear women saying "he's such a gentlemen" or "he's a real man or good man". I find plenty of women that are attracted to masculine qualities, like when men hold the door open for them, pay for the date, give them special treatment/attention, etc. It's not to say that women can't do a lot of these things, but many like it when a man steps into those roles and want to do it for them.

Gender roles can be the most romantic and loving role play that life has to offer. Without it, life would be boring.

Geez, I hope men are more than opening portals, and paying for food... I would find those things rather banal and unimportant in the broad scheme of things, especially if they are trafficking children across the border and chopping heads off prostitutes on the weekend...

I do believe societal roles play a massive part in what is expected of us, but I think we can certainly question them. A "real man" certainly ought to include, for example, caring for the baby when the mother needs to go to work, or cooking dinner, or letting his husband cry about the death of a loved one. In fact, I would say that what makes a "real man" or "real woman" is the same thing: being a sensitive, caring, empathetic, brave, emotionally balanced, person. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a need for men to show physical strength, potential for violence, etc. - since it's no longer necessary for survival. Likewise, a "real woman" doesn't need "birthing hips" or know how to cook, clean and sew.

However, there are clearly many different opinions, and as sexuality goes - each person has their kink. Some women like abusive men, some men like over docile women - and visa versa. Maybe not "like" but feel that those attributes are part and parcel.

Also, no one is perfect. We all don't measure up to some standard, not even our own.

Anhoo, good luck out there everyone!

[AgnosticBoy]

Geez, I hope men are more than opening portals, and paying for food... I would find those things rather banal and unimportant in the broad scheme of things, especially if they are trafficking children across the border and chopping heads off prostitutes on the weekend...

To you it's unimportant, but to me, treating women special is important, even when it's on small things. If just treating someone right will encourage them to treat you right, then just imagine how much more right a woman would treat you if you treated them special and made them feel that way. That perspective may not solve all of life's problems, but it does make relationships much smoother, and most of human life is just relationships.

I do believe societal roles play a massive part in what is expected of us, but I think we can certainly question them. A "real man" certainly ought to include, for example, caring for the baby when the mother needs to go to work, or cooking dinner, or letting his husband cry about the death of a loved one. In fact, I would say that what makes a "real man" or "real woman" is the same thing: being a sensitive, caring, empathetic, brave, emotionally balanced, person. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a need for men to show physical strength, potential for violence, etc. - since it's no longer necessary for survival. Likewise, a "real woman" doesn't need "birthing hips" or know how to cook, clean and sew.

What you're saying pits the genders against each other as if this is some third-grade war between boys and girls. Biology hasn't changed. Men and women have certain things that they are better at than the other. Both genders should use their strengths to compliment each other, instead of trying to pit them against each other.

However, there are clearly many different opinions, and as sexuality goes - each person has their kink. Some women like abusive men, some men like over docile women - and visa versa. Maybe not "like" but feel that those attributes are part and parcel.

There are lots of different varieties that fall outside of your either/or thinking. For instance, just because a woman wants to be a stay-at-home mom, doesn't mean that she is "docile" or that her man is abusive. Oftentimes, it's not that these women don't have the ability to work, but rather the partners delegate tasks based off of each other strengths. In some cases, if they can't afford childcare, one parent may have work while the other stays home.

Anhoo, good luck out there everyone!

A girl calling her man daddy. We need more of that

[boatsnguitars]

Geez, I hope men are more than opening portals, and paying for food... I would find those things rather banal and unimportant in the broad scheme of things, especially if they are trafficking children across the border and chopping heads off prostitutes on the weekend...

To you it's unimportant, but to me, treating women special is important, even when it's on small things. If just treating someone right will encourage them to treat you right, then just imagine how much more right a woman would treat you if you treated them special and made them feel that way. That perspective may not solve all of life's problems, but it does make relationships much smoother, and most of human life is just relationships.

I do believe societal roles play a massive part in what is expected of us, but I think we can certainly question them. A "real man" certainly ought to include, for example, caring for the baby when the mother needs to go to work, or cooking dinner, or letting his husband cry about the death of a loved one. In fact, I would say that what makes a "real man" or "real woman" is the same thing: being a sensitive, caring, empathetic, brave, emotionally balanced, person. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be a need for men to show physical strength, potential for violence, etc. - since it's no longer necessary for survival. Likewise, a "real woman" doesn't need "birthing hips" or know how to cook, clean and sew.

What you're saying pits the genders against each other as if this is some third-grade war between boys and girls. Biology hasn't changed. Men and women have certain things that they are better at than the other. Both genders should use their strengths to compliment each other, instead of trying to pit them against each other.

However, there are clearly many different opinions, and as sexuality goes - each person has their kink. Some women like abusive men, some men like over docile women - and visa versa. Maybe not "like" but feel that those attributes are part and parcel.

There are lots of different varieties that fall outside of your either/or thinking. For instance, just because a woman wants to be a stay-at-home mom, doesn't mean that she is "docile" or that her man is abusive. Oftentimes, it's not that these women don't have the ability to work, but rather the partners delegate tasks based off of each other strengths. In some cases, if they can't afford childcare, one parent may have work while the other stays home.

Anhoo, good luck out there everyone!

A girl calling her man daddy. We need more of that

I think you've succumbed to the social pressure - and a probable belief that men and women are completely different - with no recognition that some women are more butch than many men, and some men more feminine than many women. And that is only in appearance - forget the their brains differ wildly too.

I also think that you feel that whatever proclivity you have to docile, subservient women must be the normal and what everyone ought to aspire to, as you seem to tie it to your 'evolution'. I don't discount that many people do like to stay home. Both men and women. You seem to think there is an unwritten law that forbids men from doing it, but demands women be respected for it - regardless of their situation?

I think you must get quite a shock while you are out on the dating scene and you aren't getting many women to fall for you - or, that so many people simply want to be decent people - not cavemen. I imagine you feel there need to be more women calling men "Daddy" because you are either a pedophile or it's a healthy kink - but either way, not finding those women - because it's creepy to many of them. I'd encourage you to reconsider the importance of a woman calling you Daddy - if you were serious (I sense you were trolling or joking).

The point being. You are probably most likely wrong about your views, since there is a wide variety of views on this matter - and there are no rules. Simply choosing the social norms you grew up with is nothing but choosing a religion because you were born into it.

[LittleNipper]

The following are traits of a man according to the Bible:
I Timothy 6:2b-12 These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

[boatsnguitars]

The following are traits of a man according to the Bible:
I Timothy 6:2b-12 These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

No one gives to shifts about what the Bible says.