Omniscience, Free Will, and the "Eternal Present"

[Dimmesdale]

How can God know everything, and us have libertarian free will?

I say it is impossible.

But I want to delve specifically into the idea that God transcends time, and that this, somehow, explains how it could be possible.

Honestly, I believe that this idea to a large extent tainted my understanding of just how God "transcends" time. For I thought that God's transcendence of time includes the future as well as the present. That, in effect, time has elapsed for God, and he is "situated" in what I can only describe as "after-time", if you catch my drift.

But, no. If God exists he is experiencing, at this very time, the same time we are. Only that for him it is all tantamount to a single moment, instead of going by a succession. Still, nonetheless, God is still "experiencing" right now, the same time we are. It is not all "over" for him, because then it would be over for us! Or, at least, it would demonstrate that for us things are set, that things cannot be changed, even by our free will. Why? Because God already knows it! Well, I suppose free will still exists in the bounds set by our ignorance of God's knowledge. But that still seems like a sorry state of affairs. How could God, knowing everything from all eternity, still allow free will to exist? Wouldn't it be a complete obstacle to his very decree? His Providence? His own ETERNITY?

I know this idea has been rehashed ad infinitum but I wonder how God really knows, without his knowledge being basically an iron embankment preventing any flow of water from the reservoire of (libertarian) free will. It really seems obvious and absurd at the same time. I wonder how I could have ever believed it.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Dimmesdale in post #10]

Thanks for your thoughts as well. I definitely don't think I've got God's relationship to time figured out. I go back and forth, so if you have any new insights, please share them.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to Dimmesdale in post #10]

Thanks for your thoughts as well. I definitely don't think I've got God's relationship to time figured out. I go back and forth, so if you have any new insights, please share them.

Might I offer that there is nothing to figure out? There is no God. No problem to solve.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Dimmesdale in post #1]

My view is that it is impossible to understand how God experiences time or foreknowledge without Him explaining this. His attributes are beyond our experience. It would be like trying to explain to a superior cat, endowed with human language but still a cat, what it’s like to bake a cake. There are even matters known to some humans others cannot comprehend no matter what. So if a man wants to know and understand God, one has to ask Him. There is no shut cut.

“The hidden things belong to the Lord” Deut 29:29.

But of course, one can always ask Him for understanding. I’m afraid He will require obedience before understanding is given.

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

There are conditions that must be met before understanding is granted.

[boatsnguitars]

Does God know what it feels like to Satan? To worry about providing for ones family? To feel ones mortality?

Tanager, apply your reasoning about Consciousness and the Blind Scientist that knows all about sight, but not the experience.

How can God know what it's like to be a human on their death bed, knowing they will die forever?

If God exists, he can't know. He can't both know that he's a finite Being and Infinite.

He can't feel what humanity is like. Or a bat.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #14]

And you think that's a problem for omniscience, I assume? It is, if you have a certain definition of omniscience in mind that doesn't follow along with the classical theist definition of omniscience, which is concerned with knowing all propositional knowledge and does not include non-propositional knowledge like you've named. I agree that God doesn't have all non-propositional knowledge because to do so would be illogical. I don't see why that would be a problem.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #14]

And you think that's a problem for omniscience, I assume? It is, if you have a certain definition of omniscience in mind that doesn't follow along with the classical theist definition of omniscience, which is concerned with knowing all propositional knowledge and does not include non-propositional knowledge like you've named. I agree that God doesn't have all non-propositional knowledge because to do so would be illogical. I don't see why that would be a problem.

Interesting. Why think God has any knowledge?