Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[2timothy316]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

Jesus taught that hell is a place where the fire is never quenched and the worms never die. He warned people to avoid that destiny.

I guess some worms are just plain....evil?

I Cannot respond from personal experience and do not expect I will ever have to do so.

So, is your faith based on personal experience only? If so, then by your admittance that you have not experienced hell, so why respond to something you have never experienced? It seems to me that you have no answers at all.
No one can say from personal experience if there are evil worms, because they don't exist and apparently you can't prove their existence either. That means, the burden of prove is on you as to why there are evil worms. If you can't then you lose the debate and I am free to accept the 'worms that never die' as not literal but symbolic. It is up to you to convince all of us the worms are real.

[Mae von H]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

Jesus taught that hell is a place where the fire is never quenched and the worms never die. He warned people to avoid that destiny.

I guess some worms are just plain....evil?

I Cannot respond from personal experience and do not expect I will ever have to do so.

So, is your faith based on personal experience only? If so, then by your admittance that you have not experienced hell, so why respond to something you have never experienced? It seems to me that you have no answers at all.
No one can say from personal experience if there are evil worms, because they don't exist and apparently you can't prove their existence either. That means, the burden of prove is on you as to why there are evil worms. If you can't then you lose the debate and I am free to accept the 'worms that never die' as not literal but symbolic. It is up to you to convince all of us the worms are real.

There are warnings Jesus gives about hell to encourage a man to consider taking the steps necessary to avoid that place. He never had a goal to convince people of it’s existence anymore than his goal was to prove that God exists. For those who want the truth, no matter the cost to their personal preferences, the truth can be found. For those who reserve the right to decide themselves what is true, no proof or evidence will be sufficient.

[Mae von H]

Why warn someone that their eternity is annihilation?

Well if someone wanted to live (ie EXIST) warning them how to avoid eternal non-existence is useful. I, for one would rather live than not exist, especially if I am offered eternity of happiness with God's blessings.

. Every single atheist I’ve ever met WANTS there to be nothing after this life. Everyone who commits suicide hopes this too. Those guys on death row as well.

There are not a few people who hope that [annihilation] is exactly what awaits them.

If people hope for everlasting non-existence, he will give it to them. No harm, no foul.

No judgment. No justice. Feel free to be as evil as benefits you in this life. Plenty harm. Plenty foul.

No judgement.

The JUDGEMENT is: "I hereby sentence you to death". ie non-existence. If a person is judged by God as being unworthy of continued life he takes their away. He does not transfert their life to another location.

Most would love it. It’s what the worst people in history hope for….no justice.

No suffering for the suffering they inflicted.

No. God is love. In his divine kindness he does not deem it necessary to torture those he judges as unworthy of continued life. indeed it is sadistic to gain pleasure or satisfaction from the suffering of others and no purpose would be served.

He doesn’t take pleasure in their suffering but He’s not squeamish about justice.

No justice towards the evil

It is not just to torture someone for all eternity. Eventually they would have suffered longer than any suffering they inflicted.

They can avoid any suffering altogether if they’re willing.

All the evil they did in life plays no role.

Their evil would have played a role in influencing the final decision: the death (non-existence ) penalty.

That’s their hope…the sooner the better for some of them.

Every single person who commits suicide hopes this...that there is no more suffering.

Yes but there's no more pleasure either. People who commit suicide are suffering so much in life that "nothing" becomes their only hope. God offers a life of pleasure but in his divine kindness contrasts it with "nothingness" rather than torture.

That’s not their feelings or view.

So somehow you know what the people who commit suicide are feeling? I'll say that some of those people are so distraught that they don't have a clear idea of anything that will befall them after death. There are some who feel that God will have mercy on them, and I'm sure He will, the merciful God that He is.

Why would our loving God torture someone forever? He is not "squeamish" but would not roast someone in a fire, period. He is loving and merciful, and it is more merciful to cause an evil person to be totally annihilated rather then tortured. If the person doesn't care whether or not he's obliterated, so be it. He's still going to be annihilated.

If the judges of the place where you live would be so “loving” towards perpetrators and empty all jails abolishing them because they are terrible places and the judges are to be “kind and merciful,” you’d understand what is wrong with your position.

[JehovahsWitness]

If the judges of the place where you live would be so “loving” towards perpetrators and empty all jails abolishing them because they are terrible places and the judges are to be “kind and merciful,” you’d understand what is wrong with your position.

THE analogy you present isnt the equivalent. Releasing criminals back into society means they can continue to cause suffering for others. Permanent non-existence protects the innocent from ever having to suffer at their hands. Further, God doesn't ABOLISH punishment, the death penalty is the punishment (see below). Excluding the possibility of torture neither exposes the innocent to further abuse nor does it mean the wicked go unpunished.





JW



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BIBLE "HELL", THE JUDGEMENT OF THE WICKED and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

[2timothy316]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

Jesus taught that hell is a place where the fire is never quenched and the worms never die. He warned people to avoid that destiny.

I guess some worms are just plain....evil?

I Cannot respond from personal experience and do not expect I will ever have to do so.

So, is your faith based on personal experience only? If so, then by your admittance that you have not experienced hell, so why respond to something you have never experienced? It seems to me that you have no answers at all.
No one can say from personal experience if there are evil worms, because they don't exist and apparently you can't prove their existence either. That means, the burden of prove is on you as to why there are evil worms. If you can't then you lose the debate and I am free to accept the 'worms that never die' as not literal but symbolic. It is up to you to convince all of us the worms are real.

There are warnings Jesus gives about hell to encourage a man to consider taking the steps necessary to avoid that place. He never had a goal to convince people of it’s existence anymore than his goal was to prove that God exists. For those who want the truth, no matter the cost to their personal preferences, the truth can be found. For those who reserve the right to decide themselves what is true, no proof or evidence will be sufficient.

You still have not explained the evil worms that live forever. Are they real or symbolic? Then explain your answer using the Bible and not your own words. Frankly your words alone carry no water as you're not recognized as a spokesperson for God.

[Difflugia]

Another symbolic verse. Can you imagine literal smoke ascending forever?

You're appealing to common sense as an indicator of whether or not something in the Bible is meant literally? Are you sure you aren't an atheist like me?

I can imagine literal smoke ascending forever neither more nor less than I can imagine talking snakes and donkeys, ziggurats to heaven, a flood covering the entire world, and a boat carrying two of every animal on Earth. While my imagination might perhaps be considered too limited, yours is definitely wildly inconsistent.

That would mean that spirits can feel pain, and in addition to that, their screams and cries would never stop if they COULD feel pain. Is that something a loving God would want to listen to forever?

You're once again telling Jehovah what you think the Bible should say at the expense of what it does say.

No, the Revelation verses are showing that wicked people would be dead forever, without the possibility of a resurrection.

"And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever," it says. Literally, "into the ages of ages." So the Revelation verses are only "showing" what you want if you don't actually read them.

And Luke 16 is also a story presented to show that the religious leaders were not in God's favor anymore, not that there is a literal fiery hell. Have you ever heard of a metaphor?

I have. The eternal torment of a rich man in a literal fiery hell while a beggar looks down from a literal heaven is used as a metaphor for the same possibilities awaiting us.

Jesus said that the rich man was in Hades, and Hades is the GRAVE.

Apparently, Luke thought that the GRAVE included at least the possibility of eternal torment. That's what the Bible says, anyway. Maybe you don't think the Bible's inerrant, though.

In this grave the rich man looked up to Abraham in heaven. Is this literal? No it's not.

How did you come to this conclusion? Without exception, the events described in the other parables are literally accurate about the situations and conditions they describe, even if those events have metaphorical meanings. Literal sheep occasionally get literally lost, even if they metaphorically describe figurative people becoming figuratively lost. Why should that one parable be treated differently than the others because you think Jehovah's unjust otherwise?

No one could look into heaven from the grave, and, further, one drop of water certainly wouldn't have literally soothed the rich man's tongue if he was in a fire.

Of course. It's common sense, right? It must be my imagination that's the problem.

If you want to know more about the true explanation of the Rich Man and Lazarus, go to the website www.jw.org and type it into the search bar.

I'm good, thanks. On the other hand, if you'd like to know more about the true explanation, you may want to read the Gospel of Luke.

That story is known as a parable, which Jesus constantly used.

Constantly. And yet, you seem to think that this one is fundamentally different than all the others in how Jesus uses them. It's almost like you're telling Luke's Jesus himself what his theology ought to be.

A parable is "a short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle." (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary.) A short fictitious story.

Sure, but fictional doesn't mean you get to make up your own details about heaven, hell, or the GRAVE any more than you can make up your own details about sheep or grains of wheat. If you don't let the authors tell you themselves what they mean, you're likely to come to the wrong conclusion.

[tam]

Peace to you Mae von H,

I am not a jw, but I would like to respond to your question if I may? Thank you!

[Replying to Mae von H in post #125]

Why warn someone that their eternity is annihilation?

So that they may turn around and instead choose LIFE.

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live," Deut 30:19


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Mae von H]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #0]

Moving on…

[otseng]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #138]


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