Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[1213]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

Bible tells about hell:

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
Rev. 20:10

And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna [=hell], to the fire--the unquenchable--
Mark 9:43

and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.
Rev. 20:12-15

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [=hell].
Matt. 10:28

and the tongue is a fire, the world of the unrighteousness, so the tongue is set in our members, which is spotting our whole body, and is setting on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by the gehenna.
James 3:6

I believe it exists, but I can't prove it.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

[Data]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

Well, how am I supposed to debate a post that is 100% accurate knowledge.

[Data]

Bible tells about hell:

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
Rev. 20:10

Thanks for your response, 1213. I disagree with you. The lake of fire is sometimes referred to as hell. The lake of fire is obviously a symbolic reference to everlasting destruction. Since hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire they can't be one and the same. Since death is thrown into the lake of fire and death isn't something that can be thrown literally, the lake is obviously symbolic. The fact that hell and death are symbolically destroyed by fire is harmonious with the end of sin which brought death. Those not thrown into the lake of fire are the meek who will inherit the earth and live forever upon it.

And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna [=hell], to the fire--the unquenchable--
Mark 9:43

Gehenna isn't hell. Unlike the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades, there is really no excuse for mistaking the Greek Geenna (Hebrew Geh Hinnom - English Transliteration Gehenna) with the notion of any hell, either the old English word meaning covered or the pagan hell of today's Christianity.

The Christian Greek Gehenna is a literal place - a valley that lies South and South-West of ancient Jerusalem. It is the modern day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom), a deep, narrow valley. Today it is a peaceful and pleasant valley, unlike the surrounding dry and rocky terrain, and most certainly unlike the pagan / apostate Christian hell.


Modern Day Gehenna

In the days of unfaithful Kings Manasseh and Ahaz idolatrous worship of the pagan god Baal was conducted in the place which was then known as Geh Hinnom, (the valley of Hinnom) including human sacrifices to fire. It is ironic that the pagan custom of burning in fire, as in hell, would have so clearly infiltrated the Christian teachings, considering that this practice was a detestable thing to Jehovah God, and his prophets spoke of a time when this place would be turned into a defiled and desolate place. (2 Chronicles 28:1-3; 33:1-6 / Jeremiah 7:31-32; 32:35).

The prophecy was fulfilled in the days of faithful King Josiah, who had the place, especially the area known as Topeth polluted into a refuse heap. (2 Kings 23:10)

So it was that in the days of Jesus and the early Christian congregations, that the valley was known as a literal place where the carcasses of criminals and animals were thrown, having no hope for resurrection. The refuse there was kept burning with sulphur, which is abundant in the area. When Jesus used Gehenna as a figurative - a symbolic reference to the spiritually dead - the people in the area knew what he was talking about.

and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls--according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.
Rev. 20:12-15

As above, I think the lake of fire is symbolic for everlasting destruction. You have to ask yourself two questions with your quote above. 1) Why would people go to hades if they hadn't already been judged and 2) Why would they have been judged for their sins if the wages of sin equals death? As Romans 6:7 says: we are acquitted from our sins upon death. You also have to ask why Jesus went to hell, and why God is in hell. (Acts 2:31; Amos

The Greek word Hades corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol as is indicated by the apostle Peter's reference to Psalms 16:10 at Acts 2:27-31 where Jesus had fulfilled David's prophecy that Jesus would not be left in hell. Peter quoted Psalms and used the Greek hades in place of sheol. Likewise, Jesus himself said that like Jonah, he would spend three days in hell. (Jonah 1:17; Jonah 2:2; Matthew 12:40)

The Greek word Hades occurs 10 times in the Christian Greek scriptures. (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14.

It means the unseen place. In ten of the occurrences of hades it is in reference to death. It is not to be confused with the Greek word for grave (taphos), tomb (mnema) or memorial tomb (mnemeion), but is rather the common resting place of the dead. The place of death.

Jesus also uses hades at Matthew 11:23 and Luke 10:15 in a figurative way to indicate the debasement of Capernaum compared to heaven.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [=hell].
Matt. 10:28

and the tongue is a fire, the world of the unrighteousness, so the tongue is set in our members, which is spotting our whole body, and is setting on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by the gehenna.
James 3:6

See Gehenna above.

I believe it exists, but I can't prove it.

Sure, you can. You just did. I think you just mistake it for something else in a sense, because apostate religion adopted the pagan teaching of hell. Traditions of men instead of the Bible.

The old English word hell comes from helan, and means to cover or conceal. Similar words coming from the same root have a similar meaning. Hill for example is a mound of dirt or stone that covers the level surface of earth. Hull is the covering of a nut or the covered part of a ship. Heal is the covering of a wound. Hall is a building space which is used to cover people or goods. Hole is an uncovering. Shell.

In the early days to hell potatoes meant to cover them, as to store them in a cellar or underground. To hel a house meant to cover a portion of it with tile. The term heling a house is still used in the New England portions of the United States.

At first the use of hell had no pagan meaning to it. It was simply used as the common grave of man. To go to hell in the old English language meant simply that one was dead and buried. It was in Germany and England that the word began to evolve into the pagan unscriptural meaning of eternal punishment.

The original meaning of the word hell is not so much a poor translation of the Hebrew sheohl (English Transliteration sheol) and the Greek Haides (English transliteration hades), as much as it is a case of the word having evolved into a pagan meaning; the modern day translation of hell is misleading.

The Catholic Douay Version translates sheohl as hell 64 times and once as death. The King James Version translates sheohl 31 times as hell, 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit. This is common in older translations as well, such as is used by the English Revised Version (1885) where sheohl is transliterated in many cases but most of the occurrences were translated as grave, or pit. Hell being used 14 times. The American Standard Version (1901) transliterated sheohl in all 65 occurrences and haides in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Geenna (English Gehenna) is translated hell.

[2timothy316]

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [=hell].
Matt. 10:28

Many ignore a very important word in that passage...destroy.

What does the English word destroy mean?
Webster's definition: to put out of existence

[theophile]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

I think there are two aspects of hell that should be considered:

What you say here, where hell is the grave and the nothingness of death.
But also more of a Gehenna-type hell. By which I mean a real hell on earth, where God has no say or place. Or where Jesus repeatedly says there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, which simply cannot happen in the grave...

Both of these 'hells' must be annihilated in the lake of fire at the end. The first so that there can be the promised resurrection of the dead, the second so that when we are reborn it is into the kingdom of God and not some living hell.

[1213]

...Since hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire they can't be one and the same. Since death is thrown into the lake of fire and death isn't something that can be thrown literally, the lake is obviously symbolic. ...

If we are accurate, Hades is thrown into Gehenna. For some reason people have translated both words as hell. I think it is wrong and misleading and it would be better to use the words Gehenna and Hades. But, in any case, I think most important is the description Bible gives for the words.

Gehenna isn't hell.

In many translations it is. And because Gehenna is a fire lake, according to the Bible, it fits to the common idea of hell. But, by what the Bible tells, the fire doesn't seem to be the same as earthly fire.

As above, I think the lake of fire is symbolic for everlasting destruction. You have to ask yourself two questions with your quote above. 1) Why would people go to hades if they hadn't already been judged and 2) Why would they have been judged for their sins if the wages of sin equals death? As Romans 6:7 says: we are acquitted from our sins upon death. You also have to ask why Jesus went to hell, and why God is in hell. (Acts 2:31; Amos

I have understood Death and Hades are places where people wait for the judgment day. I don't think Jesus went to hell, he went to Hades, which is not the same. And about God going to hell, I think the correct word is grave or the place of dead, not hell.

And the "real Gehenna", I don't think it is the same as what is in the Bible, because doesn't fit to the description.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

I think there are two aspects of hell that should be considered:

What you say here, where hell is the grave and the nothingness of death.
But also more of a Gehenna-type hell. By which I mean a real hell on earth, where God has no say or place. Or where Jesus repeatedly says there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, which simply cannot happen in the grave...

Both of these 'hells' must be annihilated in the lake of fire at the end. The first so that there can be the promised resurrection of the dead, the second so that when we are reborn it is into the kingdom of God and not some living hell.

The gnashing of teeth is from Matthew 8:11, 12 and Luke 13:28.
In context, those that are sent away from the presence of Jesus' are those that will be gnashing their teeth. It will be when they realize that what Jesus was preaching and teaching about was true, they will then try gain entrance to salvation only to be met with Jesus saying, "‘I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness!’"

Now, when will they come to this conclusion that they are no going to allowed into God's Kingdom? This will likely be during the Great Tribulation towards the end of it, just before Armageddon. I guess one could call the Great Tribulation a 'hell on earth', but I personally don't use that term because it confuses people. Anyway, the Great Tribulation, the likes of something the world has never seen before, will be short lived because the Bible says of the GT, "In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matt 24:22). Thus those gnashing their teeth will not be doing so forever as many might think. I'm working hard not to be one of those people.

[Data]

If we are accurate, Hades is thrown into Gehenna. For some reason people have translated both words as hell. I think it is wrong and misleading and it would be better to use the words Gehenna and Hades. But, in any case, I think most important is the description Bible gives for the words.

You're certainly right about that. Hades and Gehenna aren't the same and it is misleading to say the least. A good example of why you should always compare translations and if possible, study the original language.

Sheol: Hebrew word meaning common grave.
Haides: Greek word that means the same as sheol.
Gey Ben Hinnom: Hebrew word meaning valley of the son of Hinnom. Where the Jews sacrificed children by fire to the pagan god Baal.
Gey Hinnom: From Gey Ben Hinnom, shortened to the valley of Hinnom. It became a refuse dump where the corpses of criminals and animals not thought to be deserving of a resurrection were thrown. Kept burning with sulfur.
Gehenna: Greek translation of the Hebrew Gey Hinnom. Used by Jesus as a figurative representation of spiritual destruction.
Tartarus: Greek word that means "lowest place." The disobedient angels who caused the flood of Noah's day suffered a debasement. They were figuratively in a low place, though in heaven. (2 Peter 2:4)
Hell: an English word that used to mean covering, so at that time a fair translation of the Hebrew sheol/Greek hades that both mean common grave.

Gehenna isn't hell.

In many translations it is. And because Gehenna is a fire lake, according to the Bible, it fits to the common idea of hell. But, by what the Bible tells, the fire doesn't seem to be the same as earthly fire.

No, Gehenna is a literal valley used in a figurative sense. The lake of fire is a symbolic representation of the second death. Eternal destruction. No hope for resurrection. Satan, his demons and followers, death and hell (the grave) are figuratively thrown there to symbolize their eternal destruction. No more Satan, no more sin, no more death, no more grave.

I have understood Death and Hades are places where people wait for the judgment day. I don't think Jesus went to hell, he went to Hades, which is not the same. And about God going to hell, I think the correct word is grave or the place of dead, not hell.

Death is the state of non-existence, conscious of nothing, some with the hope of resurrection from Hades, the common grave, where the dead are kept. Jonah thought the belly of the fish was his grave (Hebrew sheol/ Old English hell) for three days, and Jesus said, like Jonah, he would be in hell (the grave) for three days. Actually, his body was in hell, but since he was the archangel prior to coming to earth, his spirit was in the abyss for three days. Abyss means extremely deep. It's a void. God is in hell (the grave) in the sense that he watches over it keeping in mind the dead who will be resurrected. So, hell is the grave, the abode of the dead, not a place where demons and Satan torture immortal souls. That's pagan nonsense later adopted by the apostate church.

And the "real Gehenna", I don't think it is the same as what is in the Bible, because doesn't fit to the description.

You might have preconceived notions of pagan origin which clouds your judgement.