GEHENNA, a place of fiery torture?

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

[Difflugia]

It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish

I've seen this claim repeatedly made, but I'm unaware of any textual or archaeological evidence that this is true. Can you provide some? The only textual evidence seems to be that it's a place of human sacrifice. Perhaps the only sufficient punishment that can atone for defying and denying Jesus is to become an eternal sacrifice by fire to Yahweh, symbolically depicted by the earthly place where other human beings were sacrificed by fire.

God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day.

That's odd. He commanded it as a punishment multiple times.

Leviticus 20:14:

If a man takes a woman and her mother, it is an obscene act. They should burn him and them in the fire, so that obscene conduct may not continue among you.

Leviticus 21:9:

And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father;  i she shall be burned with fire.

Joshua 7:15:

And the one who is caught with the thing devoted to destruction will be burned with fire, he and all that belongs to him, because he has violated the covenant of Jehovah and because he has committed a disgraceful act in Israel.

[theophile]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

If hell = sheol, Hades, or the nothingness of the grave, then Gehenna is just a fiery version of that. Instead of cold earth heaped upon the bodies, we have burning sulfur and the ash and cinders of other refuse... But it's still fundamentally the same thing as hell in this regard. i.e., the dead ones sent here stay dead and buried. Completely annihilated.

As for the living ones, we could picture Job sitting on his ash heap. Still alive amongst the burning refuse. Living a tortured existence.

My question along this line would be, at the end of revelation, all sinners are clearly outside the city and consigned to Gehenna / the lake of fire, right? Does that mean there is NOTHING outside the city then if all sinners are completely annihilated? i.e., no life whatsoever? Why then is the city just a city, versus something more expansive and covering of the earth? Why does it have A WALL?

The logical answer is that there are sinners living outside, in Gehenna. Like Job, sitting on the ash heap. Living a tortured existence.

(Not saying Job is a sinner, but it is the exact same imagery as Gehenna we see deployed here.)

[onewithhim]

It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish

I've seen this claim repeatedly made, but I'm unaware of any textual or archaeological evidence that this is true. Can you provide some? The only textual evidence seems to be that it's a place of human sacrifice. Perhaps the only sufficient punishment that can atone for defying and denying Jesus is to become an eternal sacrifice by fire to Yahweh, symbolically depicted by the earthly place where other human beings were sacrificed by fire.

God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day.

That's odd. He commanded it as a punishment multiple times.

Leviticus 20:14:

If a man takes a woman and her mother, it is an obscene act. They should burn him and them in the fire, so that obscene conduct may not continue among you.

Leviticus 21:9:

And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father;  i she shall be burned with fire.

Joshua 7:15:

And the one who is caught with the thing devoted to destruction will be burned with fire, he and all that belongs to him, because he has violated the covenant of Jehovah and because he has committed a disgraceful act in Israel.

[onewithhim]

It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish

I've seen this claim repeatedly made, but I'm unaware of any textual or archaeological evidence that this is true. Can you provide some? The only textual evidence seems to be that it's a place of human sacrifice. Perhaps the only sufficient punishment that can atone for defying and denying Jesus is to become an eternal sacrifice by fire to Yahweh, symbolically depicted by the earthly place where other human beings were sacrificed by fire.

God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day.

That's odd. He commanded it as a punishment multiple times.

Leviticus 20:14:

If a man takes a woman and her mother, it is an obscene act. They should burn him and them in the fire, so that obscene conduct may not continue among you.

Leviticus 21:9:

And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father;  i she shall be burned with fire.

Joshua 7:15:

And the one who is caught with the thing devoted to destruction will be burned with fire, he and all that belongs to him, because he has violated the covenant of Jehovah and because he has committed a disgraceful act in Israel.

Jehovah would not call for the torture of anyone forever. That is sadistic and cruel. The operative word is "forever." He is merciful in that he just calls for the elimination of the wicked person completely, so that they can not know anything after death. (Eccles.9:5)

[1213]

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Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) ...

It would be good to use the actual words, Gehenna and Hades. They both are translated hell. But Hades is not the hell people usually think, for example because it is thrown in the end to the fire lake, which is called also the second death and hell.

and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire. Revelation 20:14-15

[onewithhim]

...
Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) ...

It would be good to use the actual words, Gehenna and Hades. They both are translated hell. But Hades is not the hell people usually think, for example because it is thrown in the end to the fire lake, which is called also the second death and hell.

and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire. Revelation 20:14-15

Yes, it would be much better to translate Gehenna and Hades with their original names. It would avoid much confusion. People have gotten the wrong idea about "hell"....they have been taught the spurious doctrine that hell is a place of eternal torture.

[JehovahsWitness]

If hell = sheol, Hades, or the nothingness of the grave, then Gehenna is just a fiery version of that. ... it's still fundamentally the same thing as hell in this regard. i.e., the dead ones sent here stay dead and buried. Completely annihilated.

No hades and Gehenna are not biblically the same thing. Complete annihilation means an end to existence with no possibility of future life, this is not the case for those in hades. Those that are dead and simply in the grave may not exist but God remembers them and they will have life again. Those in Gehenna have no chance of a resurrection and so can be spoken of as having been "annihilated".

Its important to distinguish between the two.

[JehovahsWitness]

The logical answer is that there are sinners living outside, in Gehenna.

No, GEHENNA refers to the condition of the dead not the living. In Jesus day, only refuse and dead bodies were thrown there, nothing living. Jesus was not implying that the dead suffer pain after their death (that is impossible since that which does not exist cannot feel anything) but that they faced complete annihilation.

.... Like Job, sitting on the ash heap. Living a tortured existence. (Not saying Job is a sinner, but it is the exact same imagery as Gehenna we see deployed here.)

No we do not; Job's situation has nothing to do with what Jesus was teaching about the fate of the wicked. Job did not live in Jerusalem and Job was alive not dead. Job was a righteous man. Job was tormented by Satan not God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.