The Invitation to do the Greater Things

[ThijsH]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

[onewithhim]

Hello, onewithhim, thanks for responding again. I understand that this psalm suggests the earth will exist forever, there are however also several quotes in the Bible which dispute this. Jesus has said things like, "My Kingdom is not of this world." "I will go to my Father's House to prepare a place for you." "Follow me!" and the more esoteric things from the letters of Paul, about the mysterie that we will no longer sleep. Therefore, I do not believe that being on earth can be the goal of a Christian, other than seeing it as a place to share love, healing, and the Gospel, and to invite everyone to turn to God again. That is how I see and understand things. Blessings to you!

So you don't accept certain statements in the Bible like Psalm 37:29? You are picking and choosing which verses to believe? There is nothing in the Bible to dispute the fact that the earth will last forever. Jesus explained that his Kingdom was "not of this world" meaning that it was centered in heaven where he would be ruling from eventually. He would rule over the earth and its righteous occupants. He said that he would prepare a place for a certain relatively small group of anointed Christians to go to be with him. There is this small group that he called his "little flock"(Luke 12:32) that will rule in heaven with him. They will rule over billions of righteous people on the earth. He called them "the other sheep." (John 10:16) So Paul was referring to all the ones in the "little flock" when he made the statements that he did. They would follow Jesus to heaven. We cannot dismiss other passages in the Bible because we don't want to honor them. There are many scriptures that show that people will be on this earth forever.

"Evildoers will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth....The meek ones will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:9, 11)

Isaiah 11 shows clearly that people will live on the earth when there is peace among men and animals. (Isaiah 11:6-9) It doesn't describe heaven.

There are many more throughout the Bible. Job, for another instance, looked forward to living again on earth with "flesh fresher than in youth." (Job 33:25)

Well, I hear what you say, but cannot relate to it. There are many indications in the Bible that the earth is the kingdom of the flesh, and that Heaven is the Kingdom of Spirit. And as long as I am on earth, I will not fully experience the peace of God. Here I will experience suffering and be confronted with duality.

Following this philosophy, it would probably mean that God created two classes of children, the good ones and the mediocre ones, and only the good ones go to Heaven. And maybe we have a third class, the lousy ones, who have to go to hell. None of that would make sense to me.

I believe it is our destiny to, by the Grace of God, have our minds and lives be transformed to become more like Jesus. To recognize our purely spiritual nature, and to undergo resurrection and ascension, just like He did. Only those beliefs are compatible with a God of Perfection, I think. Peace, blessings to you!

We use the word "class" as we would "group." A certain group of Christians go to heaven to be with Christ and rule for 1,000 years. This group is no better than the "other sheep" so we don't say they are mediocre or even lousy. They are no worse, so to say, than the anointed group that goes to heaven. Look at the government of the USA for example. Are the people who advise the president in Washington, DC, better than you and I? Just because they were included in a group that is close to the president doesn't mean they were better than their constituents, such as you and I. We are all equal. The anointed ones just have a different calling than we do. Is a man who was "called" to be a pastor better than his congregation? No he just has a different role.

Jesus died so that people on Earth could enjoy life here forever. The anointed in heaven will guide those on the earth and help them to clean up the planet and build homes for everybody and take care of those who will be resurrected. God created us to live here, and that is where the majority of people who ever lived will be at home.

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth forever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4, KJV)

[JehovahsWitness]

...I do not believe that being on earth can be the goal of a Christian..

Our goal is to please our Creator, our REWARD is to be one of the meek that will inherit the earth. It is mind boggling for me to think of any Christian that can ignore Jesus clear simple words "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"



I am genuinely confused as to what you believe Jesus was saying here about the future of our planet earth and human life on it.



JW

[ThijsH]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]

Well, I don’t truly believe that this is more than a temporary situation, part of the people staying on earth and part of the people going to Heaven. Jesus did say, “Follow me!” and He promised that He would prepare a place for everyone:

“1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God a ; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” (John 14 1-4, NIV)

JehovahsWitness, I am curious about what you think of my original question. Are you willing to respond to that? Thank you for your response to my comments, anyway.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]

Well, I don’t truly believe that this is more than a temporary situation...

Okay (and this is not an attack, I'm genuinely curious) .. so you believe that ...

• when Jesus said "the meek shall inherit the earth", he meant "Blessed are the meek, since they will inherit the earth. Temporarily"

• And when he said "THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven" he actually meant "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. For a bit"

Does that sound right to you? No permanent solution for the earth God created? The God of all eternity incapable or unwilling to find a permanent solution for the earth and its inhabitants. A prayer for God's kingdom to come and his will done only TEMPORARILY on earth?

PSALM 37:29 - New American Bible

The righteous will inherit the earth and dwell in it forever

[JehovahsWitness]

JehovahsWitness, I am curious about what you think of my original question. Are you willing to respond to that? Thank you for your response to my comments, anyway.

The "greater works" Jesus alluded to is the more extensive and longer campagne conducted by Christians to preach the good news of God's incoming government that will rule over the earth and bring about eternal peaceful condition for all humanity.

ACTS 1:8

But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samari·a, and to the most distant part of the earth

JW

[2ndpillar2]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

[ThijsH]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

[2ndpillar2]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

I think "by their fruits, you shall know them" is in referral to the trees of the "false prophets" (Mt 7:13-28), whereas the "fruit trees" the source of the good and bad fruit, would refer to the assemblies following the "false prophets", the most notable being the "Christians" following the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, and the Muslim's following the false prophet Mohammad, whereas the bad fruit being displayed often by both assemblies. Whereas the bad fruit of individuals, could be likened to the tares of those who "commit lawlessness", those who follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the "Law" is nailed to the cross, who are destined to "the furnace of fire" (Mt 13) versus those who do righteousness and will shine as the sun once the "tares" are "first" gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30), which is the "Great tribulation" (Har-Magedon), which is near. Often those who follow voices, are called mass killers. One must be able discern one voice from another, which is good reason to have the Law, the Commandments, and be skeptical of so-called prophets, and experts.

[ThijsH]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

I think "by their fruits, you shall know them" is in referral to the trees of the "false prophets" (Mt 7:13-28), whereas the "fruit trees" the source of the good and bad fruit, would refer to the assemblies following the "false prophets", the most notable being the "Christians" following the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, and the Muslim's following the false prophet Mohammad, whereas the bad fruit being displayed often by both assemblies. Whereas the bad fruit of individuals, could be likened to the tares of those who "commit lawlessness", those who follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the "Law" is nailed to the cross, who are destined to "the furnace of fire" (Mt 13) versus those who do righteousness and will shine as the sun once the "tares" are "first" gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30), which is the "Great tribulation" (Har-Magedon), which is near. Often those who follow voices, are called mass killers. One must be able discern one voice from another, which is good reason to have the Law, the Commandments, and be skeptical of so-called prophets, and experts.

Well, that sounds a bit grim. My understanding of this statement, “by their fruits, you shall know them”, is that those who open up for God’s Grace to move through them, will be involved in healing, teaching, or in general, in service to the Kingdom of God. And those fruits, for which all the credit should be given to our Heavenly Father, are something for which they are known then. And I believe that it is only Grace which we are receiving. Saved by Grace through faith.

About Paul being a false prophet, are you referring to the Biblical apostle Paul?

[2ndpillar2]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

I think "by their fruits, you shall know them" is in referral to the trees of the "false prophets" (Mt 7:13-28), whereas the "fruit trees" the source of the good and bad fruit, would refer to the assemblies following the "false prophets", the most notable being the "Christians" following the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, and the Muslim's following the false prophet Mohammad, whereas the bad fruit being displayed often by both assemblies. Whereas the bad fruit of individuals, could be likened to the tares of those who "commit lawlessness", those who follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the "Law" is nailed to the cross, who are destined to "the furnace of fire" (Mt 13) versus those who do righteousness and will shine as the sun once the "tares" are "first" gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30), which is the "Great tribulation" (Har-Magedon), which is near. Often those who follow voices, are called mass killers. One must be able discern one voice from another, which is good reason to have the Law, the Commandments, and be skeptical of so-called prophets, and experts.

Well, that sounds a bit grim. My understanding of this statement, “by their fruits, you shall know them”, is that those who open up for God’s Grace to move through them, will be involved in healing, teaching, or in general, in service to the Kingdom of God. And those fruits, for which all the credit should be given to our Heavenly Father, are something for which they are known then. And I believe that it is only Grace which we are receiving. Saved by Grace through faith.

About Paul being a false prophet, are you referring to the Biblical apostle Paul?

I suggest that you re read Matthew 13:15-22, whereas the "many" are deceived by the "false prophets", leading to "destruction", and that you will know "them" by their "fruits". Even so every good tree produces good fruit; but the rotten tree bears bad fruit. On "that day", they will say to me Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons , and in your name perform many miracles? And I will declare to them, I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS (as in follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the law is nailed to the cross). Sounds like a description of the false prophet Paul.

The false prophet Paul teaches to call on the name of the Lord, which is taken from Joel 2, whereas one was to call on the name of the LORD, not the Lord, in order to "survive"/"be delivered" from the coming day of the LORD, which is Har-Magedon (Rev 16), which is the Great Tribulation (Mt 24). As examples of rotten fruits, look at the Inquisition by the Roman mother Church, the killings of Protestants by Catholics, and even the killing of Catholics by Protestants. Look at the particular rotten fruits of the Catholic church with respect to Biden, Pelosi, Stalin, etc. As for the "kingdom", that is not the message of the false prophet Paul. His message was one of lawlessness, to nail the law to the cross. The message of Yeshua was the "kingdom". If you want to know about the kingdom, start with Matthew 13:13 and finish out the chapter. It involves two messages, one of the "devil" and his message was one "commit lawlessness", which ends with the "furnace of fire". The other message was that from the "son of man", which was to do righteousness. Which is to keep the Law.