Questioning God's Chosen Communication

[POI]

(1) Why would an omniscient God reveal to ancient societies the questions that modern scientific communities would be interested in? (2) Why would God care more about making scientific knowledge available in these texts versus addressing how He wanted humans to live?

For debate: Does the provided video below answer the above two questions sufficiently? If not, why not? If so, then I guess God is inept?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #369]

You seem to have a problem in seeing anyone who points out faulty reasoning as making a personal attack. Her's one your claims to be a scientist sound unconvincing when you don't seem to know anything about ir understand the method.

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredee
med sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Aside from dogmatic statements, none of which I accept as valid, your point about different levels of punishment is interesting.On what Biblical or doctrinal material do you base that, or have you worked it out by reasoning? Of course... I'll check the link.

Yes. That explains the point, though I dismiss the argument from the punishment of the Galilean cities. I always found it one of Jesus' failings that he prophesied punishment for the Galilean cities where he was given a 'polite' (as it says) reception. So shouldn't that be the lighter punishment? Of course the same threat is issued against Jerusalem and we know what this is - the Jewish war and destruction of those Galilean cities and the Jerusalem Temple.

That is nothing to do with degrees of Hell but only thge Christian belief that the Jewish war happened because the Jews rejected Jesus.

Apart from that, the hints of lighter punishments are well taken, and who is to blame for Jesus speaking in parables so as to make sure the Galileans don't understand? In my view, this sort of thing together with the marked partiality shown to Gentiles, for instance the centurion who had more faith than the Jews, when a Roman solder would not even believe in God, let alone Jesus makes no sense - unless the gospels are read as Greek Christian propaganda, damning the Jews and their Laws in fine Paulinist style, and explaining in a roundabout way why Jesus didn't go to the Pagans directly. 'His mission was to Israel' - when it was not the ripe time (as the cursing of the fig -tree shows) so why did God even do it? It had to be explained why Paul invented Christianity, and Jesus taught Christianityto people that God knew would not listen.

It makes sense only if the NT was written by Christians, recasting the Jesus story (which I think has some historical elements) in Paulinist Christian terms and even if the 'degrees of hell' idea is supported by the NT Text, it does not merit belief.

[Mae von H]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

[TRANSPONDER]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

I love that. Oblivion (the atheist afterlife) is what atheists expect and even rather prefer to eternal existence in a bespoke afterlife with everything we godless sinners could possibly want (don't DM me for details - it's classified information). Even after a billion years of Bruckner, Borodin and Berwald and seeing what really happened in the time travel capsule, one might still long for oblivion so (unless one gets an opt - out clause) the atheists regretfully turns down a bespoke afterlife. Eternity kissing God's toenails isn't even an option, of course.

So, no wonder atheists must burn in torment. Oblivion (not to mention separation (1) is too easy an escape for the goddless, they have to SUFFER and there the faithful will be leaning over the golden balustrade of the Third heaven watching us suffer torment. And drinking glasses of iced water at us.

(1) "Ok Mr Sponder, what sort of afterlife would you like? A harem of all the famous beauties of history? No, I'm afraid that's far too difficult. Pick something more feasible."

"Well my old Mrs 'sponder as she was when we were spooning in Pegu and Pagan, but a bit easier to deal with...listens sometimes, discusses rather than dismisses and says she's Right, and regards me as a partner to make a life with not just a source of funds for her family and religion and ...just a sensible, reasonable, life partner."

"Hmmm........... so these historical beauties, how did you want them to dress?"

[Mae von H]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

I love that. Oblivion (the atheist afterlife) is what atheists expect and even rather prefer to eternal existence in a bespoke afterlife with everything we godless sinners could possibly want (don't DM me for details - it's classified information). Even after a billion years of Bruckner, Borodin and Berwald and seeing what really happened in the time travel capsule, one might still long for oblivion so (unless one gets an opt - out clause) the atheists regretfully turns down a bespoke afterlife. Eternity kissing God's toenails isn't even an option, of course.

So, no wonder atheists must burn in torment. Oblivion (not to mention separation (1) is too easy an escape for the goddless, they have to SUFFER and there the faithful will be leaning over the golden balustrade of the Third heaven watching us suffer torment. And drinking glasses of iced water at us.

(1) "Ok Mr Sponder, what sort of afterlife would you like? A harem of all the famous beauties of history? No, I'm afraid that's far too difficult. Pick something more feasible."

"Well my old Mrs 'sponder as she was when we were spooning in Pegu and Pagan, but a bit easier to deal with...listens sometimes, discusses rather than dismisses and says she's Right, and regards me as a partner to make a life with not just a source of funds for her family and religion and ...just a sensible, reasonable, life partner."

"Hmmm........... so these historical beauties, how did you want them to dress?"

Reminds me of Milton….although “reigning” won’t be an option.

[LittleNipper]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

[Mae von H]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

Yes, I understand your position and a number of people prefer it to the description Jesus gave of existence after this life. “Separation from God” as a description today, atheists find appealing and christian’s don’t come as preaching hell fire. There is strong motivation not to sound so severe. Problem is, one has to deviate what Jesus actually taught and accept something he didn’t teach.

[LittleNipper]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

Yes, I understand your position and a number of people prefer it to the description Jesus gave of existence after this life. “Separation from God” as a description today, atheists find appealing and christian’s don’t come as preaching hell fire. There is strong motivation not to sound so severe. Problem is, one has to deviate what Jesus actually taught and accept something he didn’t teach.

A what exactly did not JESUS teach nor present through HIS disciples after HIS departure and the coming of the HOLY SPIRIT?

[TRANSPONDER]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

Yes, I understand your position and a number of people prefer it to the description Jesus gave of existence after this life. “Separation from God” as a description today, atheists find appealing and christian’s don’t come as preaching hell fire. There is strong motivation not to sound so severe. Problem is, one has to deviate what Jesus actually taught and accept something he didn’t teach.

Perhaps that's why some opt for UR rather than ET, because the doctrine of hellfire does not jibe for them with God, never mind Jesus. It is 'cafeteria Christianity', but they are certainly more comfortable with atheists, especially if they then move onto 'agnosticism' which is actually irreligious theism or Deism and it used to be known.

[TRANSPONDER]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

Yes, I understand your position and a number of people prefer it to the description Jesus gave of existence after this life. “Separation from God” as a description today, atheists find appealing and christian’s don’t come as preaching hell fire. There is strong motivation not to sound so severe. Problem is, one has to deviate what Jesus actually taught and accept something he didn’t teach.

A what exactly did not JESUS teach nor present through HIS disciples after HIS departure and the coming of the HOLY SPIRIT?

That's irrelevant isn't it? Christianity should go along the lines of what's in Paul's letters, not Acts because just as Jesus superseded the OT rules, Paul 's teachings supersede whatever Luke claims the apostles taught. Their Judean church had almost no influence on Pauline Christianity. And if the Judean Christianity was popular in Egypt, Constantine soon had that wiped out. No, the disciples are just one in a link of revelations, Paul being the Final one, unless you count the Revelation to Muhammad.

[Mae von H]

You all may wish to regard the following article. ALL sin is punishable by eternal separation from GOD. And ALL who do not repent and turn to CHRIST for their salvation will face eternal separation from GOD. HOWEVER, ALL who repent and trust in the LORD will be saved. That said, there comes the truth that the unredeemed sinners will face different levels of eternal punishment. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/no ... e-the-same

Jesus’ description is worse than separation from God, which He never mentions. He described fairly torturous experiences with fire and worms. Separation from God is exactly what the atheists want. I prefer to describe eternity for those who choose to do wrong as being as horrible as Jesus described, not what they’re hoping for. That’s what God chose to communicate…fire and worms that never stop, not that they will continue as they do now and enjoy an existence without Him.

What must be understood by an atheist or agnostic is that right NOW GOD is interacting with what happens around us. We are not alone. GOD has an influence. However, in HELL a person is separated from GOD's influence (because that is what the individual selected through his desire and behavior) and the influence of believers in general. The U.S. though not perfect is a country that has experienced the influence of Evangelical Christianity. It's pervasive in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The tugging and pulling of Christian ethics and the Bible eventually led to the Civil War. It's obvious that the War of 1812 and the burning of Washington DC could have been the end of the young nation, and it wasn't terribly long afterwards that the Civil War erupted. And again, that war could have gone any number of ways for this then fledgling nation... The Great Depression was (I feel) GOD's inducement/spanking to put America (if not the world) back on track and not think so highly of itself or abilities ---- and World War II was in fact believed by many at the time to be a fight with THE Anti-Christ (though we now know that Hitler was an Anti-Christ and likely setting the stage for future events that are now developing faster and faster). I feel GOD sends out warnings in stages. One of the most godly defined eras in the U.S. was right after World War II. Churches were full, people loved Billy Graham, and the general climate was one of Family orientation with children receiving the most consideration above (I feel) any other time in U.S. history. Church Buses would pick kids for Vacation Bible School and youth groups everywhere. And bells rang every Sunday everywhere (or so it seemed) and Christmas lights appeared everywhere. Every store was decorated for the holidays... Movies, Television Shows, Magazines, Newspapers, had no foul language. And frankly, I remember when Payton Place came out on television, that the theme of the show was the issue, and not language in the least. My parents wouldn't let me watch it (not that I wanted to), I was told to do my homework. Yet, I watched and enjoyed Ed Sullivan, Drag Net, Perry Mason, Dick Van Dyke... There were still cigarette commercials, and Winston even was a sponsor of The Flintstone's. And yet I knew (as a kid) that smoking was bad and not something to desire. But I feel that this was because even as children we heard about GOOD and BAD, and such values were not exclusive to a handful of church goers. We were surrounded by values and it was much easier to note the affects of both good and evil and make as it were the "right" choice ---- most of the time...

Yes, I understand your position and a number of people prefer it to the description Jesus gave of existence after this life. “Separation from God” as a description today, atheists find appealing and christian’s don’t come as preaching hell fire. There is strong motivation not to sound so severe. Problem is, one has to deviate what Jesus actually taught and accept something he didn’t teach.

A what exactly did not JESUS teach nor present through HIS disciples after HIS departure and the coming of the HOLY SPIRIT?

There’s a whole lot Jesus didn’t teach. He didn’t teach anything about accepting Him as Lord and Savior. He didn’t teach Hell is just separation from God. He didn’t teach all will eventually go to Heaven. Lots