Could God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit, Incarnate like God the Son?

[Dimmesdale]

It seems I'm on a roll with thinking about Christianity. Maybe it's the holiday season.

Something on my mind today was, could God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit, have incarnated the same way Jesus Christ did?

Disclaimer though: I am not a Christian. I just find this fascinating.

In my mind, the way I imagine it, God the Father would be a lot less happy around people than Jesus. This is because of the stature of God the Father as being the One to Whom all obedience is due, if I understand Christianity correctly. I have the feeling that God the Father would just not have the patience or forbearance to deal with human beings. Not to say that he couldn't face such difficulties, only that he would be unwilling to given his stature. It is the Son who does the Father's will. It would be an inappropriate reversal of roles in other words.

As for the Holy Spirit.... I have no idea. I have heard however that he doesn't like to be offended, and so his incarnation would precipitate a great deal of humans committing the Unpardonable Sin, perhaps.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd welcome in-put. Once again, even though I am not a Christian, I find this line of thinking fascinating.

[JehovahsWitness]

COULD IT BE THAT GOD WOULD EVENTUALLY MANIFEST HIMSELF IN HUMAN FORM?

One of the qualities of Yahweh/Jehovah is he is consistent in his values(see James 1:17). Although He may reveal his purpose progressively, he never reveals a violation of previously revealed principle. Notice what he pointed out to the ancient Israelites ...

DEUTERONOMY 4:15, 16

Therefore, watch yourselves closely—since you did not see any form on the day Jehovah spoke to you in Horeb out of the middle of the fire— 16 that you may not act corruptly by making for yourselves any carved image having the form of any symbol, the representation of male or female. (Compare Exodus 20:4, 5)

While Christians are no longer under the specifics of the Mosaic law, Jesus taught us to look for the principles upon which the Mosaic law is based. That God abhors idolatry is clear but a deeper look reveals more. When the Israelites heard the voice of God they saw no form. So YHWH/Jehovah chose NOT to manifest himself in human form "male or female". The principle is clear, the Israelites should not expect their God appear as a human male. Their God was NOT a God incarnate.

Is this consistent with scriptural principles? Yes. Solomon acknowledged that Jehovah (YHWH) God is too mighty to be contained in any human construction; that Almighty God being infinite cannot be limited to the any finite sphere ?



BUT CAN GOD NOT VISIT THE EARTH TEMPORARILY IN HUMAN FORM?

God can do anything ...except LIE (or die)

1. God created the earth and there is nothing in the universe that He cannot see and control from his heavenly throne. There would be no need for him to literally INCARNATE himself to "visit"

2. Almighty God has indicated he did not want true worshippers to associated him with the human form

3. God told Moses no human could see him and live

God incarnate would violate his own explicit and implicit word and make Him at best inconsistent and at worst a liar






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Did Jehovah appear before the ancient Israelites in the form of a fire?
viewtopic.php?p=1129891#p1129891

[Dimmesdale]

You ALL may just wish to regard the following: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... n-john-173

The TRINITY is not a simple possibility, but a complex absolute. We are either saved by GOD HIMSELF or we are saved through some created being. I believe former. We could only be saved through GOD HIMSELF. The TRINITY is the Revelation that the MESSIAH is in fact GOD who took on flesh to dwell among men and save that which was lost.

So why didnt Jesus explain this himself? Why did Jesus ONLY ever speak of himself as the SON of God (never YHWH Jehovah himself)? Why is all this rhetoric that the Messiah is Almighty God Himself and there is no possibility of salvation unless YHWH dies entirely missing from scripture?

JW

Maybe Jesus didn't speak of himself with 100% accuracy for the sake of atheists who prefer not to hear anything about him? God is supposed to respect our free will, right? How much free will would be erased if there was no more ambiguity around the figure of the Nazarene. There would be no room in such a world for debate. And a lot of people would be excluded.

[JehovahsWitness]

Maybe Jesus didn't speak of himself with 100% accuracy for the sake of atheists who prefer not to hear anything about him?

When is Jesus EVER recorded as modifying TRUTH for the sake of the spiritually blind or deluded? For him to say anything that is less than 100% accurate is compromise truth. If people didn't want to hear what he had to say he let them walk away but that didn't nor could it silence him. Jesus stated His mission was to reveal God's word To the world and he is never recorded as making compromise on that. Granted, he often revealed the deeper truths to a select few but reveal it he did, commissioning them in turn to publicise freely and openly what he had taught them. The idea that Jesus didnt reveal himself to be Almighty God during his ministry is contrary to both the letter and the spirit of what Jesus said.

God is supposed to respect our free will, right? How much free will would be erased if there was no more ambiguity around the figure of the Nazarene

Ambiguity does not violate free will. This is like saying one can only choose not to kill oneself if supermarkets left it unclear which of their products was rat poison and which was milk. Free will is the ability to make choices, not muddying what those choices are.

There would be no room in such a world for debate. And a lot of people would be excluded.

To suggest that Jesus left an unclear message to "create debate" is ludicrous; Jesus did not say he came to debate but to teach the truth about God and salvation. GOD is not a God of confusion but of order and unity, so any debating about his identify was not to originale with Jesus but with the Devil and his agents.

[Dimmesdale]

When is Jesus EVER recorded as modifying TRUTH for the sake of the spiritually blind or deluded? For him to say anything that is less than 100% accurate is compromise truth.

Not modifying. Withholding. Not casting pearls before swine. I should rephrase: not being 100% accurate, but not being 100% Open.

The whole point of Revelation is gradual disclosure of the truth. Especially Progressive Revelation, which I think most Christians would agree with. The OT does not contain the full revelation of God. The New Testament does. But even then, in the context of history, there need to be Councils and all sorts of movements to advance the causes of Christian truth....

We see this sort of thing in our day to day interactions. A parent does not teach his children about sex or drugs at too early an age. No. He waits till they have matured, or when the dangers of such become current. In the same way, God, according to both Christians and myself, acts and reveals accordingly....

[Dimmesdale]

Free will is the ability to make choices, not muddying what those choices are.

If the Bible was like a text-book on Truth, with a completely consistent, mathematical construction, there would be a lot less debate. And hence many movements and separate religious traditions, would lose their validity. People would simply be awestruck that the Bible could be such a consistent, perfect religious document, without flaw or wrinkle, and so people would be focused on what is "true" to such an extent that Truth would become imperious and tyrannical. There would be only one standard, and people would be either in or out of alignment with the truth. This would in some ways, I think, anger people, and they would strike out.

Part of having your own separate tradition or cult is, you have your own separate, distinct Group to call your own.....

[JehovahsWitness]

Not modifying. Withholding. Not casting pearls before swine. I should rephrase: not being 100% accurate, but not being 100% Open.

Your made no comment on the following ...

Granted, he [Jesus] often revealed the deeper truths to a select few but reveal it he did, commissioning them in turn to publicise freely and openly what he had taught them. The idea that Jesus didnt reveal himself to be Almighty God during his ministry is contrary to both the letter and the spirit of what Jesus said.

DOES THE PRINCIPLE OF PROGRESSIVE REVELATION COVER JESUS NOT REVEALING HIS EQULITY WITH AMLIGHTY GOD AS PART OF A TRINITY TO HIS APOSTLES?


The problem with this position is Jesus explicity stated God had accurately revealed through him to his Apostles his (Jesus) true identity. He (Jesus) also revealed that any further information needed would be provided through the help of holy spirit that arrived at Pentecost 33 CE. The inspired first century writers (including the Apostle John who wrote the REVELATION) eventually committed what was revealed to writing giving all subsequent generations holy Scripture. Paul explained that this body of inspired writings contained all that Christians would need to be completely equiped'to teach the truth.

In short, Jesus oversaw that his earthly mission - starting with his 3 and a half year ministry and continuing with the writing and recording of Christian scripture - was was perfectly accomplished. Nothing was missing, certainly not who he is and his position relative to the Almighty YHWH (Jehovah).

While the subsequent period of spiritual darkness meant that proper understanding of the above would need to be revealed to later generations, it would all be in the sacred scriptures. No further Prophet or divine REVELATIONS would be necessary.


CONCLUSION: There is no basis to conclude that any supposed "trinitarian" nature of God was part of a later revelation. Jesus is not revealed to be EQUAL to his Father at any point in the establishment of Christianity . It was not revealed by Jesus, nor by holy spirit at Pentecost nor was it revealed to the Apotles. It has no place in the revelation of John or in the work of ANY of the first century bible writers. We can only then conclude that it was not a truth withheld but rather an untruth rejected.

[onewithhim]

You ALL may just wish to regard the following: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... n-john-173

The TRINITY is not a simple possibility, but a complex absolute. We are either saved by GOD HIMSELF or we are saved through some created being. I believe former. We could only be saved through GOD HIMSELF. The TRINITY is the Revelation that the MESSIAH is in fact GOD who took on flesh to dwell among men and save that which was lost.

The means by which we are saved is Jesus Christ. He is not God but is the one that God says we have to be saved by. He is God's means of salvation. In fact, "Jesus" means "Salvation of Jehovah."

[onewithhim]

"Will God truly dwell upon the earth? Look! The heavens, yes the heaven of the heavens cannot contain you...!" (IKings 8:27)

That quotation doesn't say God can't incarnate. Only that God in all his manifold power and majesty isn't able to be limited by the earth or temporal sphere. Not even the heavens can contain God, with which I agree. God is infinite. So how can any finite sphere be his eternal residence? Even Christianity says there will be a new heaven and new earth. The material world is not suitable for God, but that doesn't mean he cannot visit here temporarily.

He "visits" by means of his angels and his Son. He is aware of everything going on in our hearts and minds, but from his throne in heaven. He is truly more magnificent than to be able to be contained within the sphere of this planet.